Gour Govinda Swami: When I acquired this place, Prabhupāda sent me here. I built this hut, but it was not like this. It was a very simple mud hut. And the holes are there in the walls, you see? Still, Prabhupāda stayed here. I arranged—
Devotee: Government version.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. When I invited him to come here, I arranged this government guesthouse, but he refused to stay there. He said, "No, I'll stay here because he has given me the land." So he stayed here for 17 days. He only said, "Only bring this electricity for me. Nothing else."
Because he used a specific tape for translation, it was already brought. So he stayed here. No other facilities were there. Seventeen days he stayed here. That room, nowadays we are maintaining.
Devotee: Same room?
Gour Govinda Swami: Now it is something where we are meeting.
Devotee: What year was that?
Gour Govinda Swami: Who?
Devotee: The year Prabhupāda came?
Gour Govinda Swami: 1977. Yes, January. He stayed here for 17 days, and then February 2nd, 1977—that is the appearance day of Lord Nityānanda—he put the cornerstone. Yes, that’s the day, and the next day he left.
At that time, he said—this Gargamuni and, uh, who is the other one—Guru Kṛpā, yes. They were refusing, you see? They were objecting to opening a center here. Yes, because nobody would come here. It is an out-of-the-way place. "Why open a center here? Better we open our little temple at Purī."
But Prabhupāda said no. He called me to his room, to this table, and drove out everybody. And in a whispering voice he told me, "Gour Govinda, they are objecting. You build temple here." And I said, "Yes. Now I will build a temple here."
"This will be one of the best ISKCON temples in the world. And you have to stay here and see this project is done." "They cannot stay here. They have problems."
Prabhupāda said like this, "They have problems. But you have to stay here and see this project is done." He told me this thing.
Oh, after 15 years, Ravindra Svarūpa Prabhu—last year, on the same day, the appearance day of Lord Nityānanda—we opened the temple, just completing the temple portion. The temple portion and installed the Deities.
Devotee: Very nice. Yeah, very, very nice. Beautiful.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. We will install. He told me. Yes. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma in the middle. This side Gaura-Nitāi, this side Jagannātha, Baladeva, Subhadrā. And Deities to be made in Odisha. And...
Devotee: Oh!
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, in Odisha. He said specifically everything. And Lord Nitāi and Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma should be brass Deities. He said everything. What he said, we did. You see?
Devotee: I've never seen actually such nice Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma brass Deities like that.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: That's great.
Gour Govinda Swami: He said made in Odisha. He said everything. Anyhow, by the mercy of Guru and Gaurāṅga, after 15 days, we also... only half portion is completed. Still, the entrance hall is the diorama hall. No dioramas have been set up here now. The entrance hall is the diorama hall.
Devotee: Oh, I see.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. But no dioramas have been set up here now. [laughs] Still it is incomplete. And we have 20 guesthouses... the rooms are there. Guest rooms are still not furnished. And down that, yes, that is a restaurant. Everything has been done.
Devotee: How many more will come here, huh? I see you have a lot of people coming already.
Gour Govinda Swami: Oh, they're coming. As soon as we opened the temple and installed the Deities, now the Deities are admitted. [laughs] So it is always on my head that up till now I have not fulfilled the desires of my Guru Mahārāja. I've not given any place or facility. [laughs]
Anyhow, it's going on somehow. Some construction work we still have. We constructed these three stalls here—book stall, prasāda stall, and reception stall. And that side, that is in sub-region, only 1.5 acres land. One acre, that Subī Kannungo donated. And this portion I purchased.
Devotee: Just some water.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Yes, this portion. This portion, forefront portion, I purchased. So it is now 1.5 acres. And that side, we have enclosed that land.
Devotee: Yes. Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: That is government land, you understand? And we are still... for 10 years we are in occupation now. And our petition is lying with the government, and they're still not recording it in our name...
But still we are occupying. And now [laughs] we have constructed brahmacārī rooms there, cows there... Anyhow, we are utilizing it for Kṛṣṇa. [laughs]
Devotee: That works in India. So...
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, really.
Devotee: You just build and use, and then [laughs] it's yours.
Gour Govinda Swami: I know. Yes, no land. It is very good that you came.
Devotee: Oh, looking forward to coming for a long time. This is my chance to finally stop—
Gour Govinda Swami: Holy express[?], nice.
Devotee: Yeah, you're right. This is your, uh, preaching...
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, this is the saṅkīrtana bus.
Devotee: Oh yeah. So you think that will be all? Where do you take it? Downtown or?
Gour Govinda Swami: Well, through Orissa. All throughout Orissa. All of this. Well, the Orissa that was most... yes. And we have that printing place there. That printing—printing Prabhupāda’s books. Prabhupāda said, “You translate my books, print it, distribute in Orissa like this.”
Devotee: Are you preaching everywhere in Orissa?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: And all over.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: Yeah. So many books are there. He did a great job.
Gour Govinda Swami: All the books, all the books of Prabhupāda are already printed.
Devotee: How he missed that, uh, that—because I am just raising money in America so that we can finish getting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam translated and printed in Gujarati. You know, so many years have gone by, so many Vaiṣṇavas in Gujarat, and still only the Third Canto is there. [laughs] Translated, you know?
So some Gujaratis in America, they're giving, giving money so that we can finish translating. And so many years have passed and yet in Oriya, you've got everything. So that's much to your credit.
This is a special place because Caitanya Mahāprabhu was here. We see. Right?
Gour Govinda Swami: It's close, it's close to Purī. One hour's drive only, 60 kilometers. A very dear place of Mahāprabhu. Mahāprabhu came here to Bhubaneswar. That old Bhubaneswar—Liṅgarāja Temple, famous Śiva temple is there. You know Liṅgarāja Temple?
Mahāprabhu came there. He danced, did some kīrtana dance there before Śiva-jī. And that big tank is there known as Bindu Sarovara. It was dug by Lord Śiva. This is all mentioned in Caitanya-bhāgavata. Mahāprabhu took bath there, yes, he passed through this road to Purī. Mm-hmm.
So how many days will you stay here?
Devotee: Just today. Stay tonight, then tomorrow go down to Purī.
Yeah. I have not much time. I have to get back now. I've been away a long time. Phone calls are coming from America. [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: So tomorrow, after taking prasāda, you will go, isn’t it?
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: And one day you will stay at Purī. It's 25th, and 26th you will be leaving, isn’t it?
Devotee: Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Because we are booking your ticket for the 26th.
Devotee: Yeah, for Purī. That’s right.
Gour Govinda Swami: For Purī.
Devotee: Yeah, he originally had booked me a 25th ticket, but I would have been too— not so much time. So book 26th, yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: From Purī you board to Kolkata?
Devotee: Yeah, when the plane leaves on the way, yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: All right, we are booking your ticket for yourself and your wife. Yes, yes. Two-tier. Yes, I've already booked. We will try to arrange.
Devotee: I've heard—I don't know so much about this—but I've heard that in Orissa, they have, uh, a different idea about Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Some different ideas. I've heard they also have a Pañca-tattva, but not the same persons.
Gour Govinda Swami: Different Pañca-tattva, yes, yes.
Devotee: Oriya?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, because some other sampradāyas are there. Yes.
Devotee: This is spread, this is in Oriya, huh?
Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh, yes.
Devotee: This is the most prominent?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, most prominent, yes. [laughs] Most Oriya people know it. Yes. Still, Oriya people know Mahāprabhu, because Mahāprabhu spent 18 years continuously in Jagannātha Purī Dhāma.
Many places are there related to the pastimes of Mahāprabhu. Gambhīrā is there—that small room. You should visit that place. And many places are there.
The place is there—Jagannātha Vallabha—where Mahāprabhu met Pratāparudra, Rāya Rāmānanda was staying. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was holding Bhāgavatam pravacan there—that is still there. Gondeśvara Temple, Narendra Sarovara, many things are there related to Mahāprabhu’s pastimes.
In Orissa, people know. But some other sampradāyas are there, because after Mahāprabhu’s appearance, these other sampradāyas came up anyway.
Devotee: We also see in ISKCON after Prabhupāda’s disappearance. [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. [laughs]
Devotee: Some of that has come back. [laughing]
Gour Govinda Swami: It generally takes place. It generally takes place, yes. It doesn’t take time. So anyhow, you are nicely situated.
Devotee: Yeah, very nice. [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs]
Devotee: We're looking at the... taking darśana of the Deities.
Gour Govinda Swami: So this evening you will speak?
Devotee: This evening?
Gour Govinda Swami: Hari-kathā this evening?
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: In the morning, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class.
Devotee: I want to come and hear you speaking. All right? Come on, let's... [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: They’re speaking, you see. [laughs] And then you take some prasāda, then you go.
Devotee: Okay.
Gour Govinda Swami: Go there by car. By car, one hour only.
Devotee: Okay, that’s no problem.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. [laughs]. And tomorrow also Yaśomatīnandana is coming.
Devotee: Oh, yes...
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. [laughs]
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: He is also coming. And you're leaving the next day?
Devotee: Oh, he is going to Purī or is he just coming…?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no, no, he's not going to Purī. From here he'll be... uh, he'll go to Delhi. His ticket has already been booked from here to Delhi—Nīlācala Express.
Devotee: So, you have to come and see... when you come to the U.S., I hope you come to Philadelphia.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. In 1986, I went to Philadelphia, but last time I couldn’t go. They say, "They are not allowed to enter." All right, we are going to visit this May. This May, second weekend—again going to the States.
Devotee: In May?
Gour Govinda Swami: In May.
Devotee: I discussed with them about, um, the prospect of you going to New Vṛndāvana, and maybe you can say something.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes. No, you take that one.
Devotee: Well, it’s an interesting idea.
Gour Govinda Swami: For example—
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: They say that, for example... [audio unclear]
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: We cannot... [laughs]
Devotee: I don’t—I don’t know what..what Kīrtanānanda would say, because he... although he is not there...he's confined in Wheeling. You know, he has, uh, like this bracelet on his ankle—electronic leash—Yeah. Like a dog leash. They call it electronic leash.
But still, he controls everything there—who comes, who doesn’t come. So, uh… I can’t say what they would say. I don’t even know if he would want you to come and give a lecture in their temple. There's a mūrti of Jesus there, and—
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: ...and they have—you know, outside they have... Have you seen the picture of this, um, mūrti of, uh—they say it’s Prabhupāda, but actually it’s Buddha—you know, 60 feet high. Just like—
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs]
Devotee: Just like Buddha with Prabhupāda’s face, but the body—the form—is just like Buddha from Thailand, you know?
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs]
Devotee: But then... but Prabhupāda’s face, it’s like— some Buddha path. Some, some—
Gour Govinda Swami: Some.
Devotee: So, but we have preachers that go there. Varsānā Mahārāja goes there and all the people there, they invite him to their houses and he gives lectures. They won’t let him talk in the temple room, but in people's houses he can talk. And so he gets 20, 30 people to come.
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs]
Devotee: You can do. I can arrange with him. Very... it’s interesting. Also, Guṇagrāhī Swami has this harināma band, Kṛṣṇa fan, right? So he came there and they let him set up his band in front of their temple, but only for a short time. And everybody liked it very much.
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs]
Devotee: And people were coming up and saying, "You know, this is real Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is what we really like, but we’re not allowed to do this."
And so then they made him stop, you know, after a certain time. Because Kīrtanānanda’s people, they have this, what they call ‘interfaith,’ you know—people from different religions. So there are rabbis there, and American Aborigine Indians there, all kinds of things.
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs]
Devotee: So they all came to him and protested. They said, "This place—everybody is supposed to be able to practice their own religion. So why can’t they practice theirs?"
[laughs]
Because the fact is, in New Vṛndāvana, you can practice any religion—except Kṛṣṇa consciousness the way Prabhupāda taught.
[laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs]
Devotee: That religion is not allowed.
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs] So… All right, only some house programs.
Devotee: Will be very good if you went that way, because many, many people there—they don't like this program of Kīrtanānanda. But, you know, the top people are his men and they're keeping… And, uh. We are thinking that—should he finally go to jail, because now he's appealing—once that’s finished, then they may come back. There’ll be a little revolution and, uh, he'll come back. So the more that we can preach to them and talk to them, the better that will be.
Gour Govinda Swami: You will see and talk to Ravindra Svarūpa. If they like, we will try and go there. That’s the only thing—town, house programs.
Devotee: It will be nice, I think. Uh, so I’ll talk to Varsānā.
Is there any chance that he, um... if things work out favorably, that they may let him go to New Vṛndāvana? Okay?
Devotee: Yeah, they may do it anyway, you know. I mean, I—I can’t say what their answer will be. Whether he feels comfortable doing it or not, that’s another thing. If he wants to, he can. You know, I don’t think it’ll...
Devotee: The only thing is we have to be careful for their propaganda. That you come there, and they take your picture, and then all their magazines say, “ISKCON is coming to us,” you know? They may make some propaganda. Have to think about that a little bit, you know. You have to ask Gaur Maṇḍala Bhūmi—it’ll be all over Indonesia, [laughs]—
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs]
Devotee: ...propaganda, and Malaysia, everywhere, you know. [laughs]. Penang in Malaysia, they have one center. Yeah.
They bought some big land also. In America, they’ve tried to make a syncretism of Christianity and Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In Malaysia, they have tried to mix Buddhism and Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They're collecting money dressed as Buddhist monks. Uh-huh. Buddha and— Prabhuddhapāda, you know? That’s Prabhupāda dressed up like Buddha.
But that’s just their philosophy. You know, it’s Māyāvāda philosophy with Prabhupāda’s face on it.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, only concoctions.
Devotee: Well, from there—
Gour Govinda Swami: All right. Thank you for coming. So who is taking care of?
Devotee: Here, it’s fine. You look good. You guys done?
Gour Govinda Swami: In the room?
Devotee: ...the best one, I think. [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, because the rules are there, but it’s not published yet, you see? [laughs]
Devotee: But everything’s come—look what’s come so far. I have to collect some more, huh? Did you get enough money from that, uh... How much were you, you know, there for—some of that BBT money? That’s what came here.
Gour Govinda Swami: Only that there. You get 7 lakhs here.
Devotee: Oh, it is 7 lakhs, huh?
Gour Govinda Swami: That’s right. That’s right, yes.
Devotee: After all this is used up, huh?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Now, for the rest of the work, we need 44 lakhs of rupees.
Devotee: 44 lakhs, uh-huh. That is if—
Gour Govinda Swami: Here we are.... making a pond here.
Devotee: [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: Because we do this Candana-yātrā.
Devotee: S—what?
Gour Govinda Swami: Candana-yātrā.
Devotee: Candya-yātrā?
Gour Govinda Swami: Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma's boat play.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: This time—summer time—it is a famous yātrā in Purī. And we do it here.
Devotee: You do it here? Everything, huh?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Yes. From last year we have started. And this year we are making such pond.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs] Like water to sprinkle, and water to [inaudible], and Rāma and Kṛṣṇa will have boat play for 21 days.
Devotee: 21 days?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, that’s right—21 days.
Devotee: Just saying—they’re doing in Vṛndāvana one day, huh? They flood the temple. Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, 21 days. Yes. Because it is famous in Purī. Yes, 21 days and we're doing. [laughs] Anyhow. [laughs]
Devotee: It's nice, you know, to see—everywhere I see Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. Because before I became a devotee, before I met devotees, I had a deity of Balarāma. I didn’t know who he was, you know?
And I was a graduate student in religion, and one summer—this must have been 1967, maybe summer of '67—I had a summer job, and I was in Oregon with my wife's family. I had a little money leftover. I went to some import house and there was this big box, you know?
And it was full of these little figures. Some were white, some were black, and some were yellow. And I thought, “Who are these?” you know? And I looked at them. Like, they were the most wonderful little figures I’d ever seen. I had no idea who they were.
And I only had enough money for one.
So I took Lord Balarāma home with me. I didn’t know who it was. Just put him up over my desk, you know?
And then maybe two years later, I saw some Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees in Philadelphia chanting. First time—'69—they were chanting. And then I went to a temple, and at that time, the temple in Philadelphia—brand new temple—they simply had the Pañca-tattva picture.
But then over that, huh, I noticed—maybe second time, third time I came to the temple—I was just chatting, I looked over the picture, and then they had a shelf and then they had deity of Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. No Subhadrā, but this big, you know? They just put them there...
You know, against the wall. Just Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma. And I saw Balarāma. I said, “It’s the same one I have,” you know?
I was amazed, you know? My hair was like standing up. I was like that.
And I thought, “This must be a sign.” [laughs] That there He is—the same—but I had no idea what that was.
And then I got scared. Because in those days, when you went to a Kṛṣṇa temple in America, the devotees were always chastising you.
They were very... in angry mood almost, you know? “Why is your hair long? Why are you taking drugs?”
“Why are you smoking cigarettes? Why are you just...” Chastisement all the time, you know?
They were very hard on the devotee, you know?
I mean, I remember once I just stepped out of the temple, and it was evening time and the sun was setting. And there was some Mātājī next to me, and I said, “Oh, what a beautiful sunset.” She says, “It is not beautiful! It's horrible!”
“If you think it's beautiful, you'll have to come back to the material world again just to enjoy it.” [laughs]
Devotees were like that, you know. If you didn’t run away, then they thought maybe you were a good candidate for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They made it so hard.
So when I saw this—this Balarāma—and I thought that I have one at home, I thought, “Now I'm really in trouble. They're going to be really angry with me.” [laughs]
So I went to the temple president and I said, “You know, who are those figures up there? The white one and the black one?” He said, “Well, the white one’s Kṛṣṇa and the other’s Balarāma. That’s His older brother. But He’s His first expansion—and He’s Kṛṣṇa too.”
I said, “So He’s Kṛṣṇa, yeah?” I said, “Well, look,” I said, “I don’t know what to do about this. But I have Him at home. What should I do?”
And I was ready, you know—“What? You have Him at home?” you know?
I said, “What should I do?” And he went on pause and he said, “Worship Him.
Just like this—he said, “Worship Him.” So I did. You know? I went home and I started to offer incense and chant...japa. He was right there all the time, you know? [laughs] So I always feel like that was Balarāma—He kind of picked me up and brought me here. So...
Gour Govinda Swami: So you got His mercy. That’s why you are attracted to Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. [laughs] That is Balarāma. He is the Sandhinī-śakti-vigraha. That means Sandhinī, Samvit, Hlādinī. Balarāma is the position of Sandhinī-śakti. He's the personification of Sandhinī-śakti—who...
Devotee: [laughs] [sighs]
Gour Govinda Swami: Sandhinī means one who gives the opportunity to go to Kṛṣṇa and to know about Kṛṣṇa. That is Sandhinī.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Ānandhinī. Therefore, you got the mercy, and you are attracted to Kṛṣṇa. Yes. [laughing] Yes.
Devotee: What—
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughing]
Devotee: What is?
Gour Govinda Swami: Balarāma has a plow in His hand. Kṛṣṇa has a flute. Do you understand? The plow is meant for cultivation. The heart must first be cultivated properly. Then Kṛṣṇa’s flute will attract. This is karṣaṇa, ākarṣaṇa—cultivation and attraction. This is Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.
Devotee: Karṣaṇa, Ākarṣaṇa.
Gour Govinda Swami: Ākarṣaṇa, karṣaṇa, ākarṣaṇa. Plow cultivates and flute attracts. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.
Yes, this is the philosophy behind it. So you are attracted—you got Balarāma. So it's nicely cultivated, then you're attracted to Kṛṣṇa—the flute of Kṛṣṇa. Yes. [laughing]
Devotee: Gurudeva, can you explain why Prabhupāda wanted Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma installed here?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: Why did—
Gour Govinda Swami: I said, this is the thing. This is the philosophy. Without the mercy of Balarāma, you cannot be attracted toward Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: It's like without the mercy of Nityānanda, you cannot—
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, Nityānanda. You see, Nityānanda is Balarāma. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa... Heno bine bhāi, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa pāite nāi. Without the mercy of Nityānanda-Rāma, you cannot approach Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
So His mercy only—that is Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma, and all. Gaura-Nitāi, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma, Jagannātha, Baladeva, Subhadrā—everything is set, you see?
Devotee: Some temples, Prabhupāda had installed Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: Why? Why Kṛṣṇa-Bala here and not Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa here?
Gour Govinda Swami: Because it prepares you to go to Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. That is the ultimate.
You cannot go to Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa without the mercy of Nityānanda-Rāma. You understand?
That is the preparing ground—the first step, the first thing needed.
You understand? And Gaura is here.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Gaurāṅga means the combined—the Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa combined. It’s combined.
Do you understand? Without the mercy of Nityānanda, you cannot get the mercy of Gaurāṅga. Without the mercy of Gaurāṅga, you cannot get to Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. This is the process—our Vaiṣṇava process.
So karṣaṇa and ākarṣaṇa is first needed. First your heart—this heart—must be cultivated properly. All the weeds, that is, material contamination, filthy things, must be removed first. Then...the field is prepared nicely. Then the seed will be sown—bhakti-latā-bīja.
You understand? Then gradually, you take care of it under the guidance of guru. Then you're attracted toward Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa’s flute becomes attractive. That is Gaura-kīrtana. Gaura-kīrtana is Kṛṣṇa’s flute.
Yes. Gaura-kīrtana rasa magonā hainu. That nice song Prabhupāda always sings, “Gaurā Pāhu nāma yāche āmā.”
That song—Gaura-kīrtana rasa magonā hainu, āpani korinu doṣa, āpani dainu. Huh?
That nice song is there.
You all sing nicely.
All right. So you make arrangement for the evening.
Devotee: Maybe...
Gour Govinda Swami: Ravindra Svarūpa Prabhu will give Gītā class.
This place here.
Devotee: Uh-huh. Not like the rest of India. [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: No.
Devotee: How hot it is!
Gour Govinda Swami: You go to Delhi and Vṛndāvana now—so hot.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: The hot wind.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Here, it is a cool breeze. Nice breeze.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Very cooling. And last part of night, you feel cold, you see? You need some chādar. Yes. It was such cool breeze. [laughs]
Devotee: Good. Very nice.
Gour Govinda Swami: And the water is very nice, you know? In Bhubaneswar—water is very sweet.
Devotee: All right.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Soft water. Very nice water. Yes. Natural water. Yeah. [laughs]
Devotee: Okay. I had a question about, um—
Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh.
Devotee: You were speaking about pratkaṭa, pratkaṭa this morning.
Gour Govinda Swami: Oh—Raktaka, Patraka. They’re servants.
Devotee: So that's your dāsa?
Gour Govinda Swami: Dāsya. Yeah, dāsya. Yes.
Devotee: So they would live in Goloka Vṛndāvana?
[unclear conversation]
Devotee: Uh, Raktaka and Patraka—they are in Goloka Vṛndāvana?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: And you've said that in Goloka Vṛndāvana only two and a half rasas are there?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no, no, no, no.
Devotee: Okay.
Gour Govinda Swami: In Goloka Vṛndāvana, five rasas are there.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: In Vaikuṇṭha, only two and a half rasas.
Devotee: Ah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. All five rasas are there in Goloka Vṛndāvana. In Vaikuṇṭha—only two and a half rasas.
[Oriya conversation]
Gour Govinda Swami: Fifteen years passed. Now, the 16th year is running. Understand? Then I’ve completed it.
Devotee: Hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: I told him that... I’m always in killing pain.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: But till now, I’ve not ...fulfilled the desires of my Guru Mahārāja. Not giving him pleasure.
Devotee: So, we should feel also very much pain?
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs] Yeah.
Devotee: The problem is, we're all so dull-headed that—
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs]
Devotee: ...we feel for our own pleasure rather than your pleasure.
Gour Govinda Swami: Well...
Devotee: It seems almost—Guru Mahārāja said, Śrīla Prabhupāda has given his mercy to us through this project that—
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: ...he's given you.
Gour Govinda Swami: His last project.
Devotee: Mm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Last project. He has poured his last mercy here.
Devotee: Uh-huh, everything.
Gour Govinda Swami: Everything last. You should understand this thing. To you. I told him that now we are making this pond here.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: This will... I think this pond— ...for boat play of Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa and Gaura.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Some will go up.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Last year we started. We are still making an artificial pond.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: This year we are making a nice pond.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Spring.
Devotee: I see. A fountain?
Gour Govinda Swami: Fountain.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: And also water will pass.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: You understand?
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: A big pump?
Gour Govinda Swami: Pump.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Instead of battle.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: And then in the middle there will be a pavilion.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Stone pavilion.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Nice look.
Devotee: I see.
Gour Govinda Swami: Top—
Devotee: Topped.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: All having a personal play pool.
Devotee: I see.
Gour Govinda Swami: Good play, and then this water will go on for 21 days.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: 21 days, yes.
Devotee: This year?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, every year.
Devotee: Two months' time?
Gour Govinda Swami: Every year. Last year we started.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: There was that now.
Devotee: Oh. Okay.
Gour Govinda Swami: It’s a famous yātrā in Jagannātha Purī—Candana-yātrā.
Devotee: Ah, yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Because it's summer. On Their bodies, they put sandalwood paste and have boat play in the evening time. Pooling, and also one pot of candana is there—they will sit in there, like that. Kīrtana... on the yātrā there. Kīrtana, bhajana, and dancing.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: So many things will go on.
Devotee: Yeah. Is that at Gaura Āratī time? At 7:00 Āratī?
Gour Govinda Swami: Huh?
Devotee: Will that be performed at this time?
Gour Govinda Swami: No. It’s after Āratī.
Devotee: After Āratī?
Gour Govinda Swami: They will come out. Yes.
Devotee: Small Deities?
Gour Govinda Swami: Small Deities will come, yes.
Devotee: Oh, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa?
Gour Govinda Swami: No—Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma.
Devotee: Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma? Oh no—Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs]
Devotee: [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: Rādhā is hiding here?
Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.
Devotee: Mahārāja, will this pond be made with marble or just concrete?
Gour Govinda Swami: No. The small—
Devotee: Mosaic?
Gour Govinda Swami: Small stones—
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: ...looking blue.
Devotee: I see.
Gour Govinda Swami: That will be set there.
Devotee: Hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: We have seen in Western countries—
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: ...I've seen in—
Devotee: Oh, like tiles? Little tiles?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. No—
Devotee: Ceramic.
Gour Govinda Swami: ...I've seen in Hawaii.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: I've seen in Singapore.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: That type.
Devotee: Ceramic?
Gour Govinda Swami: Ceramic.
Devotee: Yes. They're nice.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Blue.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: They will sparkle.
Devotee: Is it very dark like this window here?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, window.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Yes.
Devotee: And there’ll be some—any statues in the front of the garden, or would there be flowers?
Gour Govinda Swami: No statues. The flowers are here, this side.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: This place is soft grass.
Devotee: Mm.
Gour Govinda Swami: This place. Yes.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Another pond.
Devotee: And then a big pit?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: They're very beautiful.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah. Light is there.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Look in there.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Light will be there.
Devotee: In the West, they have lights underneath the water.
Gour Govinda Swami: For the show.
Devotee: [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: For the light, for the light. Little more, say.
Devotee: Oh. Actually, if there would just be one light under the water, it will light up everything—all of...
Gour Govinda Swami: One.
Devotee: Mm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Temporarily we may fit some lights here.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Stay for a day, week after.
Devotee: In the West, we have one fountain where I come from...
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: ...where in the bottom of the pool, there's one big spotlight.
Gour Govinda Swami: Mm-hmm.
Devotee: And it shines, and it makes a very beautiful effect.
Gour Govinda Swami: That is West, you see?
Devotee: West.
Gour Govinda Swami: So expensive.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: We have no money. Anyhow, doing something for the pleasure of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Really.
Devotee: And these—these pillars, Guru Mahārāja...
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah?
Devotee: ...will they be carried all the way down here?
Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh. Yeah, they'll carry it.
Devotee: That will come?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, they'll come in that palanquin.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Deities will come in the kīrtana procession.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Then we circumambulate this whole area.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Then They enter, then They stay there.
Devotee: Ah.
Gour Govinda Swami: So They….will enter, then They will step down here, then They will board and sit in the boat.
Devotee: Ah. And will the devotees get in and push?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes. This area—you'll see.
Devotee: Ah.
Gour Govinda Swami: You’ll see how it flows, understand? And then it will all—iron bars here.
Devotee: Like a fence?
Gour Govinda Swami: Fence.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: That way. That fine.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Nobody entering.
Devotee: No one?
Gour Govinda Swami: No.
Devotee: In Vṛndāvana, all the devotees, they push their boat around in the pond.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: In that courtyard?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Only those who are—
Devotee: Brāhmaṇas?
Gour Govinda Swami: ...pūjārīs, that do the work.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Then only they will enter.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Nobody else. All will stand—
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: ...over here, outside.
Devotee: Okay. Will you have a filter system to keep the water from getting muddy?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, we—we are setting up that thing.
Devotee: Yeah?
Gour Govinda Swami: The water will flow out. Fresh water will come in. Yes. It will not—it will not be stagnant water. It's flowing water. Flowing water.
Devotee: Yeah. Well, that's very nice. ...and this part here—will it be made of… stone or… Yes?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Concrete.
Devotee: [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: That is strong.
Devotee: When we left...
Gour Govinda Swami: Many things are there. A person needs money. [laughs]
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Suicide for the state—no money.
Devotee: Huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: No way.
Devotee: No money, yet so much work has been done so far.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah. We will… Very slow—pretty slow. Mm-hmm.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Progress is slow.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Anyhow, slow and steady wins the race. [laughs] Slow but steady—
Devotee: Ah.
Gour Govinda Swami: ...wins the race.
Devotee: See, some of us here—we're actually discussing how even though you're in so much anxiety to build this and you need the money, but always, you're telling your disciples, "Just come for... not attached to them, more than anything."
Gour Govinda Swami: Because Kṛṣṇa will attract. You preach and speak Kṛṣṇa. Do that—then He’ll attract. Yes.
Devotee: We've all come for that reason.
Gour Govinda Swami: Nothing else.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Automatic, spontaneous—they will offer their service here.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.No forcing. Spontaneous loving service. Yes.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Spontaneous loving service. Yes. Speak Kṛṣṇa-kathā. Yes, Kṛṣṇa—all-attractive, the source of nectarean sweetness and all-attractive. All will be attracted. Yes, and they'll volunteer and spontaneously offer their love and service. “Yes, I will take up this service. I will do it.” Yes—acknowledging.
Devotee: Uh, yeah. Acknowledged. The devotees have come.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: Very nice service they’re all doing now.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: Robert was working in the kitchen every night. One guy left. Did he leave?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no, I—I guess—
Devotee: Very spontaneously. So much service is here too.
Gour Govinda Swami: So much, so much. Every day and night, it is on my head, you see?
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: My Guru Mahārāja, yes, personally told me, “Gour Govinda!” In that room, he told me, “Gour Govinda! You have to stay here. You have to see that this is done—that it is done.”
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: [coughs] And these people—pointing out the Westerners—they cannot stay.
Devotee: [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: They have problems.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: [coughs] But they will help you.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: [clears throat] They will help you. They will help you. That's all. Have nice friendship, cooperation.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Cooperation, tolerance.
Devotee: Was Śrīla Prabhupāda referring to your godbrothers? Because as your disciples, we’re—we’re bound to serve you.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, godbrothers.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: To operate the temple. They will do it. And then he said at that time, “You should have your own. You should have your disciples. Train them.”
Devotee: Hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: “You should have your own men.”
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: “Otherwise, how can you work?”
Devotee: Ah.
Gour Govinda Swami: “How can you manage?”
Devotee: Ah.
Gour Govinda Swami: He said that at that time. My understanding is that.
Devotee: Hmm. So, he actually blessed you with becoming a guru at that time?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah. In 1977, he told me.
Devotee: He said it will take another 44 lakhs to finish everything? Not another building—just what’s... everything?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes, yes. No—no land in there. So how can it be? No land.
Devotee: It’s a quarter of a million dollars. Australian.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. No land.
Devotee: No land.
Gour Govinda Swami: No sufficient land.
Devotee: This is all built by professional companies? Everything is built by professional people? Not just construction, professional people.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Plan was—architect is Surabhi. S—Surabhi.
Devotee: Surabhi Mahārāja, yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: He gave.
Devotee: Okay.
Gour Govinda Swami: And in the beginning—Dalmia Company.
Devotee: Dalmia?
Gour Govinda Swami: Dalmia Company. Calcutta. Calcutta. He first—
Devotee: Made plan?
Gour Govinda Swami: No—started work.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: He started that. And Tejas Dāsa was here.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: The Dalmia Company started work. So, he made the structure only.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Then Tejas went away. Then we are working now.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Help of local—
Devotee: Uh-huh. Oh, I see.
Gour Govinda Swami: ...engineer or devotee engineer.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: And we're working.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Non-professional. This devotee engineer.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Satyavrat, Gokulānanda—they're engineering. My disciples.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: And this contractor—Samanta Bābu, contractor.
Devotee: Samanta Bābu.
Gour Govinda Swami: And this contractor—he is also an engineer.
Devotee: Uh-huh.
Gour Govinda Swami: And he’s also a devotee.
Devotee: Devotee, yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: But they are working.
Devotee: Guru Mahārāja, uh, I’ve noticed that with all of the other major temples in India, Śrīla Prabhupāda had mostly Western devotees doing it. But this temple is the only temple that’s really being built—
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: ...by local dev—
Gour Govinda Swami: Local devotees. Local devotees.
Devotee: It’s actually a very big credit to those devotees and yourself to do that.
Gour Govinda Swami: ...unless you have the devotion, you can’t make such nice things. I’m sure he’d never be happy at all.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Please them.
Devotee: Um, so the time factor is not so important?
Gour Govinda Swami: I think it's my anxiety. [laughs]
Devotee: Ha.
Gour Govinda Swami: [laughs] While I was sick, you see—
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: ...hospitalized. I was sick for two years, lying. I couldn’t move.
When I was in hospital, this operation was there. They did the operation. I was unconscious. Nobody was thinking I would survive—I would pass away. I may pass away. Still… I was thinking of and praying to my guru and Gaurāṅga. My Guru Mahārāja sent me—told me before, “I’m not done.” So what’s my condition now? What shall I do? How can I serve him and please him? Anyhow, by their mercy, they made me survive.
Devotee: Was that an accident or...?
Gour Govinda Swami: Not accident—a disease, you see?
Devotee: So you got osteomyelitis? Osteo—
Gour Govinda Swami: And here also.
Devotee: Oh, also? Really?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah. See these parts?
Devotee: You mean, this way?
Gour Govinda Swami: It has puffed.
Devotee: Ah.
Gour Govinda Swami: And come up there.
Devotee: Hm. Massage help, Guru? Massage? Does massage help a little bit at this point? Massage—as in pressing?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah. Yeah. What do you want?
Devotee: Do you need that now, or just—
Gour Govinda Swami: I don’t know about massage.
Devotee: Yes, you do. I remember la—last year, the elder—
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: ...the senior men used to do it every night. It seems you're much stronger now.
Gour Govinda Swami: Just sitting there and lying.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. There's something better now.
Devotee: Acchā!
Gour Govinda Swami: By the mercy of guru and Gaurāṅga, this body is meant for Their service.
Devotee: Okay.
Gour Govinda Swami: Their property.
Devotee: Hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Not mine—Their property. Made for Their service. So They will take care of it.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: With love. Only my prayer is: "Let me do this thing."
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: My Guru Mahārāja ordered me, "Just enable me."
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: "And empower me."
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Just that. Nothing else.
Devotee: So, Guru Mahārāja, if we are really ready for your staying with us, then we will make sure that this temple is not quite finished. [laughs]
Gour Govinda Swami: Anyhow go. This year I—just after ārati and then after [unclear]... and see tent.
Devotee: He said, "Uh, ask Guru Mahārāja what you should do? Today is his birthday and I want to please the Vaiṣṇavīs."
Gour Govinda Swami: Well, what are you doing?
Devotee: I don’t know. I have no idea.
Gour Govinda Swami: Well, he is in charge, you see?
Devotee: In the band—
Gour Govinda Swami: In the band of...
Devotee: ...when guests.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: So you need to talk to him.
Devotee: No, no, no. But I—I thought, uh... I told him I am having my birthday.
Gour Govinda Swami: After day?
Devotee: Yeah, after today.
Gour Govinda Swami: That’s right. That’s right.
Devotee: So I—I asked him, what should I do?
Gour Govinda Swami: You give a feast.
Devotee: For who?
Gour Govinda Swami: To the Vaiṣṇavas. Feed them.
Devotee: Okay.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. [laughs]
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Feed the Vaiṣṇavas.
Devotee: Yeah, yeah. Good.