Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: O Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya. Shrimad Bhagavatam, Eight Canto, Chapter 11, Text 9. You demigods think that your own selves are the cause of your attaining fame and victory. Because of your ignorance, saintly persons feel sorry for you. Therefore, although your words afflict the heart, we do not accept them. (Non-English language). Since Mahārāja Bali’s rebukes were truthful, King Indra did not at all become sorry, just as an elephant beaten by its driver’s rod does not become agitated. Text 12.` prāharat kuliśaṁ tasmā amoghaṁ para-mardanaḥ sayāno nyapatad bhūmau chinna-pakṣa ivācalaḥ [SB 8.11.12] Translation by Srila Prabhupada. When Indra, the defeater of enemies, released his infallible thunderbolt scepter at Bali Mahārāja with a desire to kill him, Bali Mahārāja indeed fell to the ground with his airplane, like a mountain with its wings cut off.
Purport by Srila Prabhupada: In many descriptions in Vedic literature it is found that mountains also fly in the sky with wings. When such mountains are dead, they fall to the ground, where they stay as very large dead bodies. Here, when Indra, the defeater of enemies, released his infallible thunderbolt sceptres at Bali Maharaj with the desire to kill him, Bali Maharaj then fell to the ground with his airplane like a mountain with its wings cut off. In purport, Srila Prabhupada says many descriptions. In Vedic literature it is found that mountains also fly in the sky with wings. When such mountains are dead, they fall to the ground where they stay as very large dead bodies. Do you think mountains are dead? Do you think the mountains are inanimate objects?
Devotee: What we see now is dead.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: You see it, but they are not inanimate. They are animate objects. In 84 lakhs of species, they come. They are living entities. Previously, they were flying. They had wings. While they were flying and when they are sitting down, then some big mountains, many villages with their inhabitants were crushed and died. Such harm was taking place. So out of mercy, this Indra dev, King of heaven. Ah. Indra dev released with his thunderbolt, infallible thunderbolt, cut off their wings. So, from that day, they were not flying. They are not flying. They are sitting in one place like, like dead body, but not dead.
Devotee: Like.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Like. He said like. And he says, Hmm. Stay as if large dead bodies. But they're not dead bodies. They are animate. They are living entities. sthāvara yoni we say sthāvara yoni. In Sanskrit we say sthāvara yoni. And in Padma Purana you will find up to 84 lakhs of species. This, this sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. jala-jā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam triṁśal-lakṣāṇi paśavaḥ catur-lakṣāṇi mānuṣāḥ Eighty-four lakhs. So, jala-jā aquatic animals, nine lakhs of types are there. sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati this sthāvarā Mountains. Hills, mountains and trees. They come under our category. Just inanimate objects. No. Animate. Living entity. Similarly, sthāvarā, the hills and mountains, also living entities. Soul is there. Living entities. Ah? They are not non-living. sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. 20 lakhs of types are of this type. Trees, hills and mountains. 20 lakhs of types. kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Hmm. 11 lakhs of type krimi patnga worm’s insects, Worms and insects they are 11 lakhs of types. pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam 10 lakhs types of birds are there, triṁśal-lakṣāṇi paśavaḥ 30 lakhs types of this pasu, catur-lakṣāṇi mānuṣāḥ 4 lakhs types of human beings. How this category is done? 4 lakhs types of human beings. How they categorized? how they make such divisions? In what respect, in what consideration?
Devotee: Consciousness. According to consciousness.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: According to consciousness. You see this in material world, the manifestation of three modes of mental nature. Mode of goodness, mode of passion, and mode of ignorance. And there are variations. Variations of these modes. Due to these variations of the three modes We find many, many variegated nature here. Only for this, this variation in moods. Variety, variegated, there is so many different, different types of climatic conditions, earth condition, geographical conditions are there. They're not same everywhere. But the variation of these three modes of mental nature will find different, different forms are there. There are eighty lakhs of forms, bodies. Eighty-four lakhs. Isn't it? Only for this reason, different, different forms, bodies. Different varigatedness different type of moods, temperaments also there. Movements are also there. Only for this variations of three modes of mental nature in this material world.
So very good to know this. So different, different types of consciousness there. Varieties of consciousness. And generally, um, the consciousness, um, there are five levels of consciousness according to its unfoldment. Blossoming. Five levels of consciousness. Āvṛta-cetana, Saṅkucita-cetana Mukulita-cetana, vikasita-cetana, Pūrṇa-vikasita-cetana Bhakti vinod thakur Mahajan has said that thing in his Chaitanya-sekha Amrta. The lowest type cetana is Āvṛta-cetana covered consciousness. The sthāvarā. The sthāvarā, this trees and mount- hills and mountains, they come under this Āvṛta-cetana, covered consciousness. They have consciousness. So, you cannot say that these hills and mountains are dead bodies, they have no consciousness, they- they're not living entities. You cannot say so. Shastra says, Bhagavatam says, śrīmad-bhāgavatam pramāṇam amalaṁ prema pumārtho mahān Mahaprabhu has given His opinion. śrīmad-bhāgavatam is spotless proof. Spotless proof. No error is there. No defect is there. Spotless proof. pramāṇam amalaṁ, purāṇam amalaṁ. śrīmad-bhāgavataṁ purāṇam amalaṁ yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyaṁ [SB 12.13.18] We chant it. Amala-pramana, spotless proof. Amala-purana, spotless Purana. Vedic Purana. So, what Bhagavatam says there is no wrong. It's spotless. bhāgavata ye nā māne, se—yavana-sama tāra śāstā āche janme-janme prabhu yama [Caitanya Bhagavat Adi 1.39] One who does not accept Srimad Bhagavatm is melcha yavan and He is to be punished by Yamaraj life after life. We accept it. We can say. You, you see like that, it appears to you that a jiva, they are dead bodies, but they are not dead bodies. They come under sthāvarā yoni. This jiva jivi, species.
So the Āvṛta-cetana, covered consciousness, then shrunken consciousness, then budding consciousness, then blossoming consciousness and completely blossoming consciousness. Five levels. These human beings, four lakhs of types, they come under these, uh, budding consciousness, blossoming consciousness and completely blossoming consciousness. Highest level of consciousness is completely blossoming consciousness that is complete Krishna consciousness. Completely Krishna consciousness, that highest level of consciousness. And that is the goal of human life, to achieve that level of consciousness. When one achieves that level of consciousness, it is to be understood that he has achieved success in his human birth. Human life he has successful. And he is fixed in that Krishna consciousness, he sees Krishna everywhere, he sees, uh, how everything is related to Krishna. And that is the perfection of His human life. But Mahaprabhu says bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya janma yāra janma sārthaka kari’ kara para-upakāra [CC Ādi 9.41] One who is born as human being in bhārata-bhūmi, he should first make his life perfect, then do para-upakāra, do good to others. What do you mean by to make one's life perfect? That means he has to achieve the highest level of consciousness that is completely blossoming consciousness, that is complete Krishna consciousness. That is the perfection. He must make his life perfect. That is perfection of his life. Then he will do good to others. That means inculcate this Krishna consciousness onto others. That is para-upakāra. That is para-upakāra, doing good, and the best type, best type of para-upakāra. Best type of doing good. No more than that.
Different, different types. Somebody, when analysed, when you see also, somebody feeds the hungry. That's a para-upakāra, doing good. He is hungry. He cannot get food. So feed him. These people cannot understand, though they may be very, very learned scholars. Ah, very expert workers. big, big netas, leaders, political leaders, politicians. They cannot understand. Oh, what are you doing? Only staying in maṭha, taking bhojan, sleeping in khāṭ. maṭha paas, khāṭ soil. Staying in matha, do you understand me? Matha. Taking bhojan, and sleeping in khāṭ, cot. Not doing, you are not doing anything. That's it. But they cannot understand what a Vaishnav is doing. He is, you see, he does such upakāra, he's doing such good to others. Nobody does that. Such type of good he's doing it. Though we are feeding so many hungry people, that's why we are doing very good, para-upakāra. Giving food to the hungry, giving water to the thirsty, giving some medicine to the diseased person or patient, making some arrangement for his treatment. And making some arrangement, giving free education, material education, jaḍa-vidyā. jīvake karaye gādhā If someone acquires that material education, he becomes ass. A human being becomes ass. And we are doing such good. That's why we are doing such good. We are opening so many hospitals, so many educational institutions where free education is given. What are you doing? maṭha people, staying in maṭha, taking bhojas, and sleeping in cot. And they cannot understand. But we are doing the harsh type, harsh type of good. Nobody does so.
All these types of doing good pertaining to the body and mind. Body and mind. Feeding the hungry and giving water to the thirsty, that is, or making arrangement for treatment of a patient, is doing good to the body. Material body, temporary, today it is there, tomorrow it is finished. And again you get another material body. As long as you are in a material body, you have thirst, you have hunger, you are busy. Do you think it is gone? So how many lives can you feed such living entities? Are you feeding an elephant? Are you feeding an ant? Are you feeding the worm in the stool? Are you feeding a mountain? That is a jiva yoni living entity. Are you feeding a bird? Birds. Are you feeding the aquatic? Are you feeding the tiger? The lion? So, what type of feeding you? And how long, how many lives can you do, can you give? As long as you are in this material body, hunger is there, thirst is there, disease is there. So, do you think it is gone? Then what sort of temporary good you are doing? You are doing some good. That is the fact, you are doing some good. But it is temporary, it is not eternal. But what good we do, it is eternal. It is not temporary. It is doing good to the soul. Therefore, this is the toughest type of doing good, that voice never dies. No more, no more you will get a material body. If you achieve the highest type of consciousness, highest level of consciousness, that is completely Brahman consciousness, Krishna consciousness, then his life becomes perfect. As Krishna says, janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti so ’rjuna [BG 4.9] My birth, my activities are not material, transcendental, but who know it in tattva, then that will be his last life. After quitting this body, he will go to meet, he will never be again come back here and burn here. So, no punar janma. No material body, no material birth.
So, we are helping, we are inculculating such Krishna consciousness that is completely blossoming consciousness, then one can understand Krishna in tattva, then you'll never come back here, you'll go to Krishna, go back home, back to Godhead, you'll never come back here, never born here, you'll never get another material body, so there is no question of hunger, thirst, birth, death, old age and disease, finished. Eternal body, do you understand? There is no question of birth, death, old age, disease, hunger, thirst, suffering, no? Eternally blissful, do you understand? sac-cid-ānanda, you'll stay there in sac-cid-ānanda Bhava, do you understand? Completely, what do you say, blissful, transcendentally blissful, only blissfulness is there, no misery, no suffering, so we are doing such, good. So are you doing such? This is the highest prize. Even a sthavar, a mountain, will be delivered. Then Mahaprabhu came, chanted Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. Even these mountains, the blocks of stone, you see, blocks of stone, they melted, blocks of stone melted. paśu pākhi jhure, pāṣāṇa vidare, suni' jāṅra guṇa-gāthā Isn't it? Isn't it? paśu pākhi jhure, pāṣāṇa vidare, suni' jāṅra guṇa-gāthā dekho ore bhāi, tri-bhuvane nāi, emona doyāla dātā Block of stone melts So, this sthavar, the hill and mountain, they bow down. Trees, they bow down. When Mahaprabhu was passing through Jharikhanda jungle, the animals, the tigers, the deer, the beasts, the birds, all living entities, even trees, the sthavar yoni , the hills, the mountains, do you understand? They all get Krishna consciousness, they become Krishna conscious, they became Krishna conscious. Mahaprabhu, because Supreme Person, He could make, He could make them, He could inculcate Krishna consciousness, because they are living entities, they are living entities, jiva yoni, do you understand? They all chanted Hare Krishna, danced, the tree bowed down, the hills and mountains bowed down, bowed down, do you understand? So, He inculcated Krishna consciousness there, it is there. The block of stone melts, do you understand? So this is very true, very true.
So we inculcate such consciousness, Krishna consciousness, that the first type of doing good, no more than that. sarvasya ca paropakāraḥ, do you understand? So in many places you will find such thing. If you are in, therefore, the varieties of consciousness, in budding consciousness level, blossoming consciousness, not achieved complete blossoming consciousness, you should achieve, you can elevate yourself. That opportunity, chance has been given to you in this very birth. Human birth, not other birth, it's possible. In other 80 lakhs of species, it's not possible at all. That will achieve the highest level of consciousness. Only Mahaprabhu can do it, you understand? Only Mahaprabhu can do it. And very, very elevated, very dear devotee of Mahaprabhu, Paramahamsa, who is as powerful, who is empowered, who is an empowered incarnation, do you understand? He is specially empowered, do you understand? He has got some mercy of Mahaprabhu, you understand? Kripapistha, Kripapistha, you understand? He may do it, but we cannot do it. Mahaprabhu can do it. Or such personality, especially empowered by Mahaprabhu, he may do it, do you understand? So you should understand that these hills, trees, hills, they are Sthavar yoni, they are species of life. They are not dead bodies, you understand?
And when Mahaprabhu asked that question to Raya Ramananda, bubhukṣu, mumukṣu—duihāra kaona gati? You understand? bubhukṣu, mumukṣu-duihāra kaona gati? What is that destination? bubhukṣu, that means who wants to enjoy, you understand, material enjoyment, sense enjoyment, more and more and best type, best type of enjoyment, better type, best type of enjoyment is bubhukṣu. And mumukṣu, who wants to merge, merge into the Brahman, do you understand, is mumukṣu. What is that destination? So Raya Ramananda answered, deva-yoni, sthāvara-yoni, dohāṅkāra gatiḥ. Do you understand? It's sthāvara-yoni, he says, sthāvara. deva-yoni, sthāvara-yoni. That means those who are after this material enjoyment and trying to enjoy more and better type of enjoyment, better type of enjoyment, so their last limit, destination is heavenly planet, demigods planet. They go there and they get enjoyment, immense enjoyment, immense. Do You understand? Enjoyment is there. That is their destination. So last destination is there. And those who want to merge into Brahman, there is Sthavar Joni. They will fall down and become trees or mountains. That means they will come under this covered consciousness level. Very, that is worst, worst type. So sthavar, he says, they will become hills or mountains or trees. They will come under this covered consciousness level. Such lowest type of consciousness level they will come. It is sthavar yoni is there.
So that is what my Guru Maharaj says in various, in various, in many discourses, in many discourses of Vedic literature they have found these mountains also fly in the sky. Also you will find 3.28.22 Bhagavatam. Srimad Bhagavatam, 3.28.22, you see. You have that? yac-chauca-niḥsṛta-sarit-pravarodakena tīrthena mūrdhny adhikṛtena śivaḥ śivo ’bhūt dhyātur manaḥ-śamala-śaila-nisṛṣṭa-vajraṁ dhyāyec ciraṁ bhagavataś caraṇāravindam Bhagavatam you have? 3.28.22? No, that big Bhagavatam is there, why don't you bring it? You see, -nisṛṣṭa-vajraṁ, here it is. Just grab here. yac-chauca-niḥsṛta-sarit-pravarodakena tīrthena mūrdhny adhikṛtena śivaḥ śivo ’bhūt dhyātur manaḥ-śamala-śaila-nisṛṣṭa-vajraṁ dhyāyec ciraṁ bhagavataś caraṇāravindam
He says, You see, this Ganges water is not material water, transcendental water. It comes out from the toe of Lord Hari. Do you understand? That is Ganges. With that water, Brahma washed the feet of Lord Vishnu. That came out as Ganga. And Lord Shiva has carried it on his crest, do you understand? So, therefore śivaḥ śivo ’bhūt has become śivaḥ, and all auspicious. śivaḥ means all auspicious. He says, śivaḥ śivo ’bhūt. Lord śivaḥ becomes Shiva. That means all auspicious. Carrying Ganges on his crest. Do you understand? So, the lotus feet from which such transcendental water, Ganges water comes out, should be meditated upon by one and all. Do you understand? That is to be meditated upon, lotus feet of the Lord. Do you understand? If someone meditates the lotus feet of the Lord, then what happens? The material contaminations, filth, do you understand, accumulated from time immemorial, do you understand? In many, many lives, lots and lots of lives, like mountains in your heart. These are like mountains. They are like mountains. Do you understand? Those filth will be completely destroyed. As Indra, he says śamala-śaila-nisṛṣṭa-vajraṁ, as Indra throwing his thunderbolt on the hills and mountains, destroys them. Similarly, the material filth and contaminations accumulated in the heart, like mountains, Himalayas and mountains, will be destroyed if you meditate upon the lotus feet of the Lord. Here he says, here he says, this one also says, there is a releasing, a throwing of infallible thunderbolt of Indra, the hills and mountains are crushed. Do you understand? That is that.
In many places you will find, you will find this description. That is why Guru Maharaj said, many descriptions, basically, it will be found that mountains will fly in sky, and Indra, they cut off their wings. When mountains are dead, Indra, they cut off their wings. They fall to the ground, and where they stay, they look as if they are lost dead bodies. But they are not dead bodies. They are living entities. They are consciousness. Do you understand, yes?
Devotee: You said that there is four lakhs of human birth.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Human, four lakhs of human beings.
Devotee: Human beings.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Four lakhs of types.
Devotee: That means all the different universe, they are-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they belong to this.
Devotee: And on this earth how many species or-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami:
Devotee: ... how many different species? Many on this one earth, many species are there?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Well, in one universe, in all material manifestations.
Devotee: I mean, in our, we all belong to human race.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: Is this just one species or many species are there even among human being on this earth?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: The human beings are four lakhs of types. Four lakhs of types of human beings, according to their consciousness, division is there. They are human beings. Do you understand? You find human beings in Eskimo and Greenland, they are human beings.
Devotee: They're from one species?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: They're one human being species.
Devotee: Different than from us?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Different from us in respect to the elevation of cur- this, uh, per se, unfoldment of consciousness, only different in that way. Otherwise, form is not different. Two hands, two legs, two ears, nose, ears, like this. Its consciousness is different. Do you understand? Black or white, something complexion, may be different. Isn't it? But no other difference. Only that difference, temperament, mood, consciousness, it is different. But human beings. Not a fact that he has a tail and you have no tail. He has horns and you have no horns. What do you think? (laughs) Jayant krut He has a tail and you have no tail. They have horns and you have no horns. No. They are hu- human beings. No tail, no horns, two legs, two hands, one head, two eyes, two ears, like everything is there. But, you see, they are like animals. Their consciousness is low consciousness, like sunken consciousness. Now, the bars of beasts. Do you understand? What do you say? Yes.
Devotee: you quoted the statement Chaitanya Mahaprabhu that first become perfect-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm. Hmm.
Devotee: ... and then-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Do good. Then do-
Devotee: Then do good to others.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Yes. Hmm.
Devotee: So, in this Krishna consciousness movement, it appears that by doing good to others-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm.
Devotee: ... we become perfect.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. You should do that thing. That Mahaprabhu's order. First, you become perfect, make your life perfect. Uh, you are born in, as a human being in Bharata bhumi. You should do. Then do good to others. What does that mean? The highest type of doing good, that I say, inculcating Krishna consciousness onto others. That is the highest type of doing good. Yes.
Devotee: So by understanding that that is the highest good-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: ... then one could say that we are already perfect.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: You may say. Is his, is he his judge? He is his own judge. Judge is something else, something different person. You are not your judge. One who says so, one who says, "Oh, I have already become perfect," he is fallen. He is a rascals. He is a rascal. One who is really perfect, he never says that thing. No, I am most degraded. I am most degraded patita
Devotee: Excuse me.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs)
Devotee: I heard one lecture once where Srila Prabhupada was saying how-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm.
Devotee: ... uh, he was telling the devotees that they were already liberated.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm.
Devotee: He was saying, "You don't have to worry about your own liberation."
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm.
Devotee: "You're already liberated."
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm. Hmm.
Devotee: "Because you're on the airplane."
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: He was saying like that.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm.
Devotee: He was saying, "You're already perfect."
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: You, you cannot understand Prabhupada, I said.
Devotee: Okay.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: What Prabhupad says you cannot... You misunderstood. You misunderstood. He tricked you. He tricked you. Don't worry. Don't be depressed. Don't be disheartened. He just inspire you. "Yes, I am now flying high, high, high, high." He says like that. That is his trick. Yes. If you say, "Oh, I can, uh, finish, shut up. We won't take part in it." Such depression. No depression here. No pessimism here. It's all optimism. He said like that. Then feel enthusiastic, more inspired. Yes. Now wings are there, let me fly. I was born. Little baby bird cannot first fly. Do you understand? Little wing grows gradually. Then mother teaches how to fly. Then go. (flies) So old. (laughs) Similarly, do you understand me now, what Prabhupada says?
Devotee: Not in the way you just said.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs)
Devotee: I always thought it meant that, if you stick to this process-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Ah. Yes.
Devotee: ... you'll fly.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. You'll fly.
Devotee: So, don't worry about it.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Don't worry about it. Yes.
Devotee: Don't worry about that.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: No. This process is, this process is so perfect process and infallible. Infallible process.
Devotee: Yeah.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: You should have full faith in it. Don't worry about it. Yes. Hmm?
Devotee: So, the fact that one can engage in, in serving-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: ... that is liberation, because liberation needs to be, I guess, one's own positional position also.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Ahah ah.
Devotee: So, actually serving is like liberation in platform.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: In principle, I mean.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes.
Devotee: It is level, but-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm-hmm.
Devotee: ... the principle is there, isn't it?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm-hmm. Hmm-hmm.
Devotee: As long as one is serving-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: You see, how can you serve Krishna? Do you think Krishna is in this level? Krishna is not in this level, material level. Sac-cid-ānandamaya. He is on the level of sac-cid-ānanda. The sac-cid-ānanda level. Unless you go to that level, how can I serve you? Guru can do it. If you follow your guru, you've accepted a guru, bona fide guru, guru-pādāśraya, do you understand?... and engaged in the loving service of Krishna under his guidance, then you are elevated. Guru takes you to that level. Do you understand? Guru takes you to that level. You cannot go to that level. Do you understand? Guru takes you. Do you understand? As this, uh, Krishna says, when Bilvamangal blinded himself, "Oh, Sadhu, you are going to Vrindavan. How can you go now? You are blind." "Come with me! Chalo catch hold of the stick!" He takes that. Now you are... guru does like this. Do you understand me? Jagat Atma. And what Maha prabhupada said, it needs further explanation. So you misunderstood. You have no clear understanding. Don't... ah, what do you say, become so proud, "Yes, Prabhupad books are there! Reading Prabhupad said everything, we are liberated." Finished. Don't do it. What he has said, you have not understood it clearly. Yes.
Devotee: You were saying, uh, what you mean by that. When he says first you become perfect, then you do it to other people.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: But, you know, movement, although we are not perfect, still the preaching is going on.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Flew.
Devotee: We're not... in other words, we are not waiting to be perfect-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: All right, all right! Please come, I am highing up to this height, flying up to this height. Please come, so I will take off to that height. Yes. Similarities goes on. Some bird flies to this height, some much higher, some much higher, some much higher, then some the highest level. Goal is highest level. Varieties of birds. They are teaching to their young ones, "Oh, my young ones, fly, fly." So, he is teaching fly, the height he flies. Do you understand me? Yes.
Devotee: So that teaching doesn't mean that one should first become perfect, then teach. That he has to wait-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: The perfection he has achieved, degree of perfection. There are degrees.
Devotee: Is that so?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Not most perfect or supreme perfect. Do you understand? Degree is there. Yes. And goal is achieve the supreme perfect.
Devotee: The ultimate.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, the first level you achieve. Then you will do the most perfect good, isn't it? Yes. Do you understand me? Yeah.
Devotee: What would be the definition of flying then? You said that different birds fly-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, in different, different height.
Devotee: ... so if we're comparing a living entity to a bird that can fly-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm-hmm.
Devotee: ... well, what are the ones that are stuck on the ground and they're only imagining that they can fly?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: No, no, just imagining. Don't imagine, just practically fly in the highest level that fly up to the Goloka Vrindavan and approach the lotus feet of Krishna, penetrating, heh, the thin layers of material coverings. Go, go, go, go.
Devotee: Yeah, so what, when I say that, I mean, when Chaitanya Maha Prabhu says, "First become perfect and then teach"-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: He says to the-
Devotee: ... so what is the difference?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: ... human being, human being who is born in India. He told him.
Devotee: So what, what does he mean when he says perfect?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Perfect, most perfect. Most perfect. If you have one rupee, then you can give five paisa, ten paisa, fifty paisa like that. So, do you understand? So, he can give as one deserves, and someone deserves to get the complete one, he can give complete because you have gotten it. That most perfect. Yes. Do you understand? Follow me! (laughs)
Devotee: Yes, so... yes. So perfect means to have some knowledge of Krishna?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Yes.
Devotee: And more perfect means to have more knowledge of Krishna?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Knows Krishna in truth.
Devotee: And most perfect would mean-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Mean-
Devotee: ... Tattvacharya.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Tattvacharya. Most perfect. Knows Krishna completely. Complete truth. He has gotten Krishna. He has gotten Krishna. That is most perfect. So he can give Krishna. If you have not gotten, how can you give? That is, how can he live, inculcate such complete Krishna consciousness as the highest level of consciousness? That is that. Thank you. Govinda he, he saw Govinda in a pap, um, stone pillar. So he said ekānta-bhaktir govinde yat sarvatra tad-īkṣaṇam [SB 7.7.55] Develop such unalloyed devotion to Govinda so then you will be able to see Govinda everywhere. So what he has achieved, he says. Do you understand me? (laughs) Hari, Hari. Yeah. Your Hari. (laughs)
Devotee: I never get.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs) What you deserve, you get. (laughs)
Devotee: Gurudev?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: I have one godbrother in France.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Oh.Devotee: He tries himself to be a scientist or something.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Oh.
Devotee: He's not a scientist, of course, but-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Oh.
Devotee: So, he regularly, he says, when Prabhupada speaks about, you know, the structure of the universe-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh.
Devotee: ... and, and the moon and all that, going to the moon and-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh.
Devotee: So he say, "It's obvious that they went there," but, uh-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: The scientist?
Devotee: Yeah. No. Mine, that's a, that's a devotee.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh.
Devotee: Of course, he has big difficulty with this Krishna consciousness because-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh.
Devotee: ... i think because of that.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh.
Devotee: He thinks that Prabhupada's just repeated what the Vedas have said.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh.
Devotee: But when the Bhagavatam states like that-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Oh.
Devotee: ... it is obvious that it is not from our sp- our point of view.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Oh.
Devotee: They went to the moon. It's, it's proved. It's sure.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Sure?
Devotee: That's what he says.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs)
Devotee: So his like, his idea is that-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs)
Devotee: ... these dimensions given, you know, in the Bhagavatam-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh.
Devotee: ... they're from a, a, they're taken from not our planet, from a different planet. That is his speculation.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Oh, speculation. No.
Devotee: So-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs)
Devotee: ... many times I've tried to help him by preaching to him.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: But he cannot understand it.
Devotee: And I could, he could, he can't accept. I was wondering-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: No, no.
Devotee: ... how can I help him?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: No, no. He cannot accept. He cannot understand. He cannot understand. He's a speculator. How can he understand?
Devotee: But he said, "Look, Bhagavatam says Himalaya is 100,000 kilometers high."
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: We know it's not that big. We know it's only six-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: No, no.
Devotee: ... six kilometers or seven kilometers.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: So? So? So? So? So?
Devotee: So how to help him?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: With, with, with his imperfect senses, he measures but he's, he's not prepared to admit that "I'm blind man. I have imperfect senses." He's not... "I say I am perfect."
Devotee: He says, "Modern science, they have calculated. Oh, is there-"
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: You cannot make him understand all these things because he thinks himself perfect. "What I say is correct." But everybody's incorrect. Nonsense. (laughs)
Devotee: And therefore, he has big trouble-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: He is a person who is posing, who is pretending that he's sleeping. Nobody can make him awake. If he's really sleeping, he may be awakened. One pretends that he's sleeping-
Devotee: He cannot.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: ... he cannot be awakened. He is a person like that. (laughs)
Devotee: And he cannot be... right now, he's, he's v- not following very much. Of course-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Why he follow?
Devotee: Because he's-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: He will now go, glide down, down, down, down.
Devotee: Sadashiva.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs) He will glide down, down, down. He cannot go high.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Now, he's gliding down.
Devotee: I mean, he has no more sadhana, nothing. He's like-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Why? He'll now give, go, go to the lowest planet, nethermost planet. Hell, hell.
Devotee: Hmm
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Hell.
Devotee: He say, accepts Prabhupada, but, uh, and that food, I cannot accept.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. How he accepts Prabhupada? As we may say, ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya. He accepted half and rejected half.
Devotee: Hmm.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami:
Devotee: 'Cause he's, he's living next to us Toulouse, you know?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs)
Devotee: And many times... and he was a good friend before but gradually, now he, he fell, fell and fall and fall and fall.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Definitely, he'll fall.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: More and more fall.
Devotee: I know he's coming with this.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Such a rascal. Great offender. Great offender. He has become a great offender. Now, how shall we expect? What shall we expect of him?
Devotee: (laughs)
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: He's great offender. (laughs)
Devotee: Now and then he comes, now for kirtan or even arrange some program in Toulouse for preaching. But he's a-
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: He has no attraction for it. (laughs)
Devotee: Yeah. He lost his faith.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, lost his faith.
Devotee: Isla jan?
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: He lost his faith, you know? Hmm. Hmm. As they, vraṇam icchanti makṣikā. Do you understand? The fly, we may say, madhumakkhī
Devotee: Un- yes. Un- mad- uh, makhi.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: What is a-
Devotee: Bumblebee.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Bumblebee.
Devotee: Honeybee.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Honeybee.
Devotee: Honeybee.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Honeybee only searches after honey, sits on that flower and collects some honey.
Devotee: Hmm.
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: He looks after it. But general fly? vraṇam icchanti Where there is tool, there is pause, nastiness.Bash. He's like that. Hmm. All right. I cannot sit. I say, I will complete very soon because (laughs) I have to go to toilet. Anyhow, Krishna Katha kept me there. I forgot everything. Now on that urge is there. (laughs) Thank you.
Devotee: Bye, Srila Guruji. Jaya!
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami: Jaya!