921130 - SB 8.19.41 - Be Connected with Krishna for Peace and Bliss - Bhubaneswar

 

 _{Transcription made by Shrushti and Nidhi Mataji}

 

Gour Govinda Swami: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Devotees: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Gour Govinda Swami: Eighth Canto.

Devotees: Eighth Canto.

Gour Govinda Swami: Chapter Nineteen. Chapter Nineteen. Text 41.

Devotees: Text 41.

Gour Govinda Swami: parāg riktam apūrṇaṁ vā, akṣaraṁ yat tad om iti

Devotees: parāg riktam apūrṇaṁ vā, akṣaraṁ yat tad om iti

Gour Govinda Swami: yat kiñcid om iti brūyāt

Devotees: yat kiñcid om iti brūyāt

Gour Govinda Swami: tena ricyeta vai pumān

Devotees: tena ricyeta vai pumān.

Gour Govinda Swami: bhikṣave sarvam oṁ kurvan

Devotees: bhikṣave sarvam oṁ kurvan.

Gour Govinda Swami: nālaṁ kāmena cātmane

Devotees: nālaṁ kāmena cātmane

Gour Govinda Swami: Translation by Śrīla Prabhupāda:

"The utterance of the word om signifies separation from one’s monetary assets. In other words, by uttering this word one becomes free from attachment to money because his money is taken away from him. To be without money is not very satisfactory, for in that position one cannot fulfill one’s desires. In other words, by using the word om one becomes poverty-stricken. Especially when one gives charity to a poor man or beggar, one remains unfulfilled in self-realization and in sense gratification." (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 8.19.41)

Purport by Prabhupāda:

"Mahārāja Bali wanted to give everything to Vāmanadeva, who had appeared as a beggar, but Śukrācārya, being Mahārāja Bali’s familial spiritual master in the line of seminal succession, could not appreciate Mahārāja Bali’s promise. Śukrācārya gave Vedic evidence that one should not give everything to a poor man. Rather, when a poor man comes for charity one should untruthfully say, 'Whatever I have I have given you. I have no more.' It is not that one should give everything to him.

Actually the word om is meant for oṁ tat sat, the Absolute Truth. Oṁkāra is meant for freedom from all attachment to money because money should be spent for the purpose of the Supreme. The tendency of modern civilization is to give money in charity to the poor. Such charity has no spiritual value because we actually see that although there are so many hospitals and other foundations and institutions for the poor, according to the three modes of material nature a class of poor men is always destined to continue. Even though there are so many charitable institutions, poverty has not been driven from human society. Therefore it is recommended here, bhikṣave sarvam oṁ kurvan nālaṁ kāmena cātmane. One should not give everything to the beggars among the poor.

The best solution is that of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This movement is always kind to the poor, not only because it feeds them but also because it gives them enlightenment by teaching them how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are therefore opening hundreds and thousands of centers for those who are poor, both in money and in knowledge, to enlighten them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and reform their character by teaching them how to avoid illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling, which are the most sinful activities and which cause people to suffer, life after life. The best way to use money is to open such a center, where all may come live and reform their character. They may live very comfortably, without denial of any of the body’s necessities, but they live under spiritual control, and thus they live happily and save time for advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one has money, it should not be squandered away on nothing. It should be used to push forward the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement so that all of human society will become happy, prosperous and hopeful of being promoted back home, back to Godhead."

The Vedic mantra in this regard reads as follows:

parāg vā etad riktam akṣaraṁ yad etad om iti tad yat kiñcid om iti āhātraivāsmai tad ricyate; sa yat sarvam oṁ kuryād ricyād ātmānaṁ sa kāmebhyo nālaṁ syāt. (Chāndogya Upaniṣad 1.1.9)
Gour Govinda Swami: Here, one thing, Prabhupāda Mahārāja says, "The tendency of modern civilizations to give money and charity to the poor. So, charity has no spiritual value because we actually see that although there are so many hospitals, other foundations, institutions for the poor, according to three modes of material nature, a class of poor men is always destined to continue. Even though there are so many charitable institutions, poverty has not been driven out from human society."

Why? Huh? Why? Hmm? Here you say, "Actually, we see, although there are so many hospitals, other foundations, institutions for the poor, according to the three modes of material nature, a class of poor men is always destined to continue." Even though there are so many charitable institutions, poverty has not been driven out from human society. Why? Huh? Why it is so?

Because according to the prārabdha-karma, they have to suffer. They have to suffer from poverty. Yes. It's their prārabdha-karma, isn't it? Huh? Can these charitable institutions, foundations, charitable persons destroy their prārabdha-karma? Huh? Cannot destroy. They cannot destroy. Therefore, in spite of so many charitable institutions, poverty has not been driven out from the society. Government is also making so many plans, projects to drive out poverty, but has this government come out successful? Huh? No, still poverty is there, because government cannot destroy the prārabdha-karma. Prārabdha khaṇḍāite nāre. No one can do; only Kṛṣṇa can do. Do you understand? Only Kṛṣṇa can do. karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Brahma-saṁhitā 5.54).

 

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

(Bhagavad-gītā 18.66)

Kṛṣṇa, who is your well-wishing friend, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ. He says this thing: giving up all varieties of dharma, just surrender unto Me. Do not fear. I will destroy all your sinful reactions, all your karmic reactions. If someone attains the nāmābhāsa stage, his prārabdha-karma is finished. Yes. Someone attains the nāmābhāsa stage, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare / Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Someone like Ajāmila, a great sinful person—he attains the nāmābhāsa stage, his prārabdha-karma, all sinful reactions, are completely destroyed. He didn’t die. His life span has increased, you see.

Then what is that? Who can do? Only Kṛṣṇa can do. So these charitable organizations, institutions, foundations, charitable persons—they cannot do it. They cannot drive out poverty from the society. Still it continues. They are so foolish, they cannot understand how poverty can be driven out. Do you understand? Because that person is suffering from poverty for his prārabdha-karma, how can you drive out poverty? When you cannot destroy his prārabdha-karma, how can you?

You see in society, people giving so much money. So many charitable persons are there, so many foundation institutions are there, charitable organizations. Still poverty is there. They cannot drive it out. If you give some money to the poor man, what will he do with it? You should think it out. He has become poor because of his prārabdha-karma, having done some sinful activities. Suffering. Become blind, become a diseased person, become a leper. Isn’t it? And people feel pity for them. Suffering person, invalid person, blind person, leper, cannot move. "Give him, give him, give him charity. Help him. Then we will do some dharma, some good."

But they are fools, they cannot understand. What sort of dharma do you do? If you cannot destroy their prārabdha-karma, how can you help them? How can you drive out poverty? If such poor men and beggars get money, they commit more and more sinful activities. You understand? They commit more and more sinful activities. That means now they are opening the gate to hell, more suffering. If you cannot inculcate Kṛṣṇa consciousness into them, really you cannot do any good to them. This is real good. If you can inculcate Kṛṣṇa consciousness into them, then they will never do any sinful activity. They will be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's loving service situated in their constitutional position as kṛṣṇa-dāsa, then a real happy, peaceful, blissful life they will lead.

You see practically. So many poor men, so many beggars, invalid, lepers, blind men, begging, begging and people giving, and they are earning so much money, so much money. You understand? One blind man has kept three wives. Yes. He kept three wives, a blind man. A blind man begs at the bus stand, railway station. He has so much money, his three wives. So many children he is maintaining. Blind and beggar. That means so much illicit sex he is doing, so much sinful activity. Smoking ganja, cigarettes, drinking liquor, utilizing money for all this. It is squandering every month. Misuse. More and more sinful activities. So, do you think you do a good to him? No. Rather you do some bad. You cannot drive out poverty from him. He will still remain more poor, much poorer. Yes. Many, many lives, worse life, worse life. But if you can give Kṛṣṇa consciousness unto them, get them into real good, then his poverty will be driven out.

So, Prabhupāda Mahārāja says, "Therefore it is recommended here, bhikṣave sarvam oṁ kurvan nālaṁ kāmena cātmane. One should not give everything to the poor among the poor." Rather, give Kṛṣṇa consciousness unto them. The best solution is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This movement is always kind to the poor. Not only because it feeds them, but also because it gives them enlightenment by teaching them how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Devoid of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the real poverty. Do you understand? That's the real poverty. If you develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your poverty is gone. Yes. If you'll be engaged in loving service of Kṛṣṇa, under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master, then you'll be happy, you'll be blissful, you'll be peaceful. Because the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa is such a place.

aśoka-abhaya, amṛta-ādhāra,
tomāra caraṇa-dvaya
tāhāte ekhona, viśrāma labhiyā
chāḍinu bhavera bhaya

(Śaraṇāgati, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura)

Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said that thing. Can you see? In Rāgātmikā? No? I don't understand.

ātma-nivedana, tuwā pade kori’,
hoinu parama sukhī
ātma-nivedana, tuwā pade

(Śaraṇāgati, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura)

Bolo! Bolo! Nice song you should sing. How can you get real happiness, pleasure, unless you sing this song, Mahājana's song?

ātma-nivedana, tuwā pade kori’,
hoinu parama sukhī
duḥkha dūre gelo, cintā nā rohilo,
caudike ānanda dekhi

(Śaraṇāgati, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura)

 

Sing, sing, sing.

aśoka-abhaya, amṛta-ādhāra,
tomāra caraṇa-dvaya
tāhāte ekhona, viśrāma labhiyā
chāḍinu bhavera bhaya

(Śaraṇāgati, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura)

Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Śaraṇāgati, he sings: "O Lord, Your true lotus feet is such a place where there is no fear, no lamentation, no death. Only amṛta, nectar is there." You understand? tāhāte ekhona, viśrāma labhiyā, chāḍinu bhavera bhaya. "Now, taking shelter at such lotus feet of Yours, I am now free from all sorts of fears, lamentations, even the fear of death." hoinu parama sukhī: "and I am very, very happy, supremely happy. Taking shelter at Your lotus feet, I am supremely happy." āmār duḥkha dūre gelo, cintā nā rohilo, caudike ānanda dekhi: "Now all my distress, all my unhappiness, completely finished. I am now free from all anxiety, all fear, all lamentation. I see only joyfulness everywhere."

If you can see the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa everywhere, then you can see all joyfulness. If you can see māyā, then you see also all suffering, all darkness, ignorance. Therefore, if someone can inculcate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness into one, then he will be really happy. That person will be happy, his poverty will be finished forever. Really poverty will be driven out. Otherwise, by making arrangement for the money, you cannot drive out poverty from your society. You cannot drive out distress, unpeacefulness, peacelessness from the society. You cannot do that.

Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, another nice song is there:

(Śaraṇāgati, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura)

Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, "I was so much in anxiety, so much in fearful state, how to maintain my body, how to maintain my family. I was always in anxiety, always in fearful state. How to earn more money, more money, more money? To fulfill all the necessities of my family, how can I earn more money, more fame, name, adoration, prestige? How can I give marriage to my daughters and sons? So much money is required, lakhs of rupees." Day and night he was always in anxiety, thinking, "I cannot sleep at night." You see? All these thoughts are haunting the mind; such a person cannot sleep at night. He spends sleepless nights. So is he leading a happy life, who spends sleepless nights?

ebe ātma-samarpane cintā nāhi ār, tumi nirvāhibe prabhu, saṁsāra tomār. "Now, completely taking shelter at Your lotus feet, O Lord, I am free from all sorts of anxiety and fear. No more anxiety, no more fear. Now, this all belongs to You, O Lord. Now You do the needful. I am not responsible for it." Yes, Your family, this all universe, world is Yours. How to maintain—that will be Your headache, why my headache? No more headache to me. You understand? Then I am free from all sorts of fears, all anxiety. Now I am happy. You understand? This is real happiness. This is real blissfulness. To take shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, which is a place where there is no fear, no lamentation, no death. Only blissfulness, not just happiness. Yes.

Abhaya-caraṇāravinda. That is what Bhāgavatam says.

tāvad bhayaṁ draviṇa-deha-suhṛn-nimittaṁ
śokaḥ spṛhā paribhavo vipulaś ca lobhaḥ
tāvan mamety asad-avagraha ārti-mūlaṁ
yāvan na te ’ṅghrim abhayaṁ pravṛṇīta lokaḥ

(Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 3.9.6)

As long as you have not taken shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, which is known as Abhaya-caraṇāravinda, a place of fearlessness, you cannot be free from fear. Fear for what? tāvad bhayaṁ draviṇa-deha-suhṛn-nimittaṁ. Fear for your accumulated wealth, draviṇa. Yes. The cash plunderers are coming, they'll take it away. The family men will take a share of it. Demand. Government will levy taxes. Take away your accumulated wealth in the form of taxes. So many taxes. Isn't it? This is fear. draviṇa-deha, fear for this body. Body is becoming old, body is becoming diseased. So much fear for this body. suhṛn, fear for the bodily relationships. Your wife, your son, your daughter, your family men. Kith and kin.

"What happens to my family? What happens to my wife?" Oh, my wife is in Singapore. She is in distress. Jagat Ātmā is thinking of, telephoning, "How are you?" Oh, I am scared. Oh, Lord, you are scared. Fearful state, isn't it? draviṇa-deha-suhṛn. "My sons are in Mayapur Gurukul. How are you, Gopāla?" "I am suffering." Oh, so much suffering. Isn't it? tāvad bhayaṁ draviṇa-deha-suhṛn-nimittaṁ, śokaḥ spṛhā paribhavo vipulaś ca lobhaḥ. So much greed, so much suffering, so much fear, so much anxiety. As long as you have not taken shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, this will continue. And when you completely surrender at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, take shelter, you are free from all anxiety, all lamentation, all fear.

Tumi nirvāhibe prabhu, saṁsāra tomār. Tomāra icchāya prabhu sab kāja hoy. Jīva bole āmi kori, satya nāhi hoy. "Oh Lord, by Your mere will, everything takes place. Creation, maintenance and destruction. You have such supreme will. By Your mere willing, everything takes place." But the bewildered soul, conditioned soul, ignorant fool thinks, "I do, I do, I do." Is it true? Satya nāhi. That's not true. Jīva bole āmi kori, satya nāhi. Tumi nā korile jīva kichu korite nāre. "Oh Lord, if You don't do, if You do not will, what can a jīva do?" Āśā mātra jīva kori, taba icchā-mate. Man proposes, God disposes. Human sense desire. But unless Kṛṣṇa sanctions, one's desires cannot be fulfilled. Do you understand? So only you are building castles in the air. Making so many plans, projects, building castles. But what happens to it? Oh, it collapsed. It collapsed. All castles collapsed.

Unless Kṛṣṇa sanctions. A poor man was there, very poor, suffering from poverty. He thought of how to drive out poverty. "All right, I'll keep some hens, they'll lay eggs." So he kept some hens. One hen, two hens, three, four, five... so many. He got a basket of eggs. And going to the market, carrying on the head the basket of eggs, he was thinking, building castles in the air: "This time I'll sell all these eggs, I'll get so much money. Yes, I'll get five hundred rupees, one thousand rupees. Oh, then I'll keep cows. I'll make a dairy. Two cows, three, four... Jersey cows, give ten liters per day. So much milk I'll get. Then I'll sell it, then I'll get how much? Oh, thousands of rupees, one lakh! Oh, then all poverty gone, I'll no more be a poor man. Five lakhs, ten lakhs! I'll build a pucca house, like a palatial building, a king's palace. I'll live in the palace, I'll become a king. Then I'll marry the king's daughter. I'll ask the king, 'Now I am a king like you, give your daughter to me for marriage.' I won't marry anybody but your daughter!"

He shook his head, the basket fell down. The castle collapsed. [Laughter]. You see, almost finished. This is what? Unless it is sanctioned by the Lord, how your desires will be fulfilled? How your desires will be fulfilled? Here is the ultimate sanctioning authority, ānumantā.

Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā:

upadraṣṭānumantā ca
bhartā bhoktā maheśvaraḥ

(Bhagavad-gītā 13.23)

"I am the ultimate sanctioning authority, I am the overseer, I am the maintainer, I am the enjoyer, I am the Supreme Lord, sarva-loka-maheśvara, Lord of all planetary systems." Unless He sanctions, how your desire will be fulfilled? Āśā mātra jīva kore, taba icchā-mate. Man proposes, God disposes. You understand? There are five factors. Eighteenth Chapter, Bhagavad-gītā says:

adhiṣṭhānaṁ tathā kartā
karaṇaṁ ca pṛthag-vidham
vividhāś ca pṛthak ceṣṭā
daivaṁ caivātra pañcamam

(Bhagavad-gītā 18.14)

Fifth factor: daivaṁ, providence. You have all these things, four things okay. Field of activity, okay. Kartā, the actor, doer—Jagad Ātmā, very expert. That factor is okay. Different instruments for action, very nice, modern invented instruments—that factor is also okay. Various attempts, endeavors, plans—expert plan maker—that factor is also okay. daivaṁ caivātra pañcamam. But the fifth factor is daivaṁ, providence. That is not okay. Are baba, the four factors are okay, but the fifth factor is not okay. Finished, everything collapsed. That is the most important factor. Unless He sanctions, finished.

So inculcate Kṛṣṇa consciousness—that is real driving out of poverty. You will be attached to Kṛṣṇa, day and night, twenty-four hours, always, every moment, engaged in loving service. Kṛṣṇa means He is everything, He is sac-cid-ānanda-maya. Full of eternality, full of knowledge, full of blissfulness. Then you will be always in Kṛṣṇa, meaning always blissful, always peaceful, always happy. lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam (Brahma-saṁhitā 5.29). Thousand, thousand Lakṣmīs are serving Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not poor. Nārāyaṇa is not a poor man, "Daridra-Nārāyaṇa." Neither Nārāyaṇa is daridra, nor the daridra people are Nārāyaṇa—that is a bogus idea. There is no such Nārāyaṇa; they have coined this word. Neither Nārāyaṇa is poor, nor a poor man is Nārāyaṇa.

But one who is constantly attached to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, how can he be poor? He is a real rich man, a wealthy man. Yes, he is Mahārāja. King of the kings, emperor of the emperors. Great emperors come and bow down. Sanātana Gosvāmī and Jīva Gosvāmī were there. Emperor Akbar invited him. Jīva Gosvāmī was staying in the jungle of Vṛndāvana. Apparently leading a very poor life, isn't it? It's only apparent. But leading a very peaceful, happy life. Peaceful, blissful. Their food, what is their food? Food is some dry pieces of bread, some canā, and water from the Yamunā River. Kaupīna and tattered cloth. Cira-kaṇṭha, tattered cloth, and one water pot. These are their assets, nothing else. But they are leading such a happy life.

That touchstone, such a wonderful stone, once touched the feet of Sanātana Gosvāmī. Once he was going to take bath early in the morning in the Yamunā, and that stone touched him. If you touch a piece of iron to it, immediately it will transform into gold. Sanātana Gosvāmī kicked it—"Eh, it is a very bad day today. This thing touched my feet." Do you understand? Such a wonderful touchstone. He kicked it and said, "It is a very bad day today." How is it? He has gotten such dhana, such assets, that in comparison to that, this stone is insignificant. So he kicked it. What has he gotten? He has gotten Kṛṣṇa. Do you understand? Kṛṣṇa-prema-dhana.

"prema-dhana vinā vyartha daridra jīvana, 'dāsa' kari' vetana more deha prema-dhana" (Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya 22.16)

"I am devoid of kṛṣṇa-prema, which is the real asset. So I am really poor." Are you a rich man? Jagad Ātmā, rich man? All say Jagad Ātmā is a very rich, wealthy person. No? Poor? He says no. "I am really poor. I am leading a very poor life because I am devoid of prema-dhana. Kṛṣṇa-prema is a real asset. I am bereaved of it. So I am really poor. O Kṛṣṇa, please make me Your dāsa. Please make me Your servant. I will serve Your lotus feet day and night, twenty-four hours. And as remuneration, I only ask You: please give me this prema-dhana. No other dhana I beg of You." So, one who has gotten that prema-dhana is a really wealthy person.

Therefore, here my revered Spiritual Master Prabhupāda Mahārāja says to inculcate Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only solution to drive away poverty.

(Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya 19.127-131)

How they lead their life? Rūpa Gosvāmī, Sanātana Gosvāmī. aniketa duṅhe—they have no cottage. vane yata vṛkṣa-gaṇa, eka eka vṛkṣera tale—spending one night under one tree. So must be detached. vipra-gṛhe’ sthūla-bhikṣā, kāhāṅ mādhu-karī. They have given up all material enjoyments, sensual enjoyments. Going out to collect mādhu-karī. Like the madhukara bumblebee collects some honey, they go to five doorsteps of householders and collect some little bhikṣā. What is it? śuṣka ruṭī—some dry pieces of bread, some canā. karoṅyā-mātra hāte, kāṅthā chiṅḍā, bahirvāsa. One water pot, a tattered cloth, and an outer wear just to the knee. These are their assets, nothing else. Apparently very poor life they are leading, kintu they are leading a very happy life. kṛṣṇa-kathā, kṛṣṇa-nāma, nartana-ullāsa. Everything is engaged in kṛṣṇa-kathā, chanting kṛṣṇa-nāma, dancing.

aṣṭa-prahara kṛṣṇa-bhajana—day and night, twenty-four hours kṛṣṇa-bhajana. cāri daṇḍa śayane—how much time is cāri daṇḍa? Approximately one hour. Sleeping only one hour. nāma-saṅkīrtane seha nahe kona dine—always busy chanting and dancing. kabhu bhakti-rasa-śāstra karaye likhana, caitanya-kathā śune, kare caitanya-cintana. Sometimes writing books, sometimes hearing caitanya-kathā, thinking of Caitanya. This is a very happy, blissful life.

That wonderful touchstone was kicked into the Yamunā because Sanātana Gosvāmī had gotten a much more valuable asset, kṛṣṇa-prema-dhana, by which Kṛṣṇa becomes bound up. Madan Gopāl went to him. Yes, Madan Gopāl went to Sanātana Gosvāmī and said, "Bābā, bābā, I will stay with you." "Hey, how can You stay with me? You are the son of Nanda Mahārāja. Your father is such a wealthy king. Your mother Yaśodā Rāṇī feeds You so many nice palatable foods—makhana, miśrī, butter, ghee, milk. You have a nice sleeping cot in a palatial building. Why stay here? What will You eat? No, no, get out." "No, no, bābā, I will stay with you." "What will You eat? I eat dry pieces of bread and canā. You can't eat that. Go, go, get out." Still Madan Gopāl came to him. Thousands of Lakṣmīs serve Him, yet He comes for kṛṣṇa-prema. So is Sanātana Gosvāmī a poor man? Not at all.

He is very wealthy. Material wealth is temporary and subject to destruction, but the wealth he has gotten is eternal and inexhaustible. Material wealth is plundered by rogues, thieves, enemies—but this wealth cannot be taken away. When you inculcate Kṛṣṇa consciousness—therefore my Guru Mahārāja says to open Kṛṣṇa consciousness centers—that is the best solution. This movement is kind to the poor because it teaches them how to become real wealthy, how to drive away poverty forever. Lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the real poverty. If you develop kṛṣṇa-prema, how can you be a poor man?

Sanātana Gosvāmī kicked that touchstone. Apparently such Vaiṣṇava sādhus lead poor lives, but they are not poor. They may be suffering apparently, but they are on a blissful platform. Finally they have bliss and peace.

Yes, the example is Sudāma Vipra. Such a poor man, he could not even thatch his house roof. Or Kolavecha Śrīdhara—so poor his daily earning was five or ten paisa. Selling plantain leaves and flowers. But Nimāi Paṇḍita, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, used to go to him every day, putting His hand into the basket and taking things away. One who is blessed by the Supreme Lord deals with the Supreme Lord, quarrels with Him in love every day. "Hey! How much? Five paisa? Too much! I can't give five paisa, only two paisa. And I have no paisa today, maybe tomorrow." He engages in loving quarrels with the Supreme Lord, dances with the Supreme Lord, eats and plays with the Supreme Lord. Is he a poor man? Is he a distressed person? Ah, you should understand.

Gour Govinda Swami: Who is sac-cid-ānanda-maya Kṛṣṇa? He is full of knowledge, full of eternity, and blissfulness. How can a poor man suffer? People cannot understand it. If you want to really do away with this poverty, try to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement; inculcate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everybody lacking Kṛṣṇa consciousness—they can really become wealthy persons, really become happy, and lead a very happy, peaceful, blissful life.

Apparently, they may be leading such a life that they are seemingly poor. Vidura was poor, Vipra Sudāmā was poor, Kolavecha Śrīdhara was poor, and the Gosvāmīs were leading such poor lives. But they are very wealthy persons because they have got Kṛṣṇa, they have got kṛṣṇa-prema, which is the real asset, prema-dhana, and a real blissful life.

Gour Govinda Swami: Here it is said: "The best way to use money is to open such a center." This Kṛṣṇa consciousness center, an ISKCON center, is where all may come to live and reform their character. They may live very comfortably without denial of anybody's necessities—no denial. They live under spiritual control, spiritual discipline; thus they live happily and save time for advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one has money, it should not be squandered away on nothing; it should be used to push forward the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement so that all of human society will become happy, prosperous, peaceful, and hopeful of being promoted back home, back to Godhead. This is really doing good to others, really driving out poverty from the society. Then it will be a peaceful, happy, blissful life. It will be cent percent Kṛṣṇa conscious. Develop complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness; attain the level of complete Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You understand?

People are always thinking and opening so many organizations and institutions on how to get peace, peace, peace, isn't it? But they cannot get peace. To get peace when there is a disturbed atmosphere, a disturbed condition in some state or some country—how to settle up peace? They set up the UNO, the United Nations Organization, isn't it? In the language of my Guru Mahārāja, only the number of flags is increasing, isn't it? Where is peace? There is more and more fighting, more and more quarreling. One country is divided into five countries—like this, the number of flags is increasing. Where is peace?

Gour Govinda Swami: They don't know how to get peace or who is peaceful. That which is eternal—do you follow my language?—which is not temporary, which is eternal, that is peaceful. Do you understand? That is peaceful. If you are attached to it, then you get peace. If you are attached to temporary material things, the material world, the material body—how can you get peace? What is temporary and material is not peaceful. Do you understand? That is aśānta—without peace, not peaceful.

If you want to get peace, you have to do what? Why don't you say what you have to do? You have to hear; you have to hear from the sādhu-mahājana. Do you follow? Who is the seer of the truth, tattva-draṣṭā? What do they say? They say satyaṁ śivaṁ sundaram. You understand? Sādhus say satyaṁ śivaṁ sundaram. That Supreme Lord is satya—He is truth, He is the supreme truth. He is śivam—He is auspicious. He is sundaram—He is all-peaceful and all-blissful. Do you understand? If you can be attached to Him constantly, then you will be peaceful and blissful. Do you follow me? They say so.

The Supreme Lord is peaceful. If you can develop love for that Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, who is the object of love; if you can establish your loving relationship with Him and be fixed in it, then you will get peace. Do you follow? Sādhus say so. You are the soul, the part and parcel of the Supersoul, the Supreme Soul—that is peaceful. So the soul is peaceful. But your body—this material body, mind, and intelligence created by māyā—is not peaceful. They are not peaceful.

Gour Govinda Swami: But you are attached to all these things. Temporary, material things—how can you get peace? They were not here previously, and they will not be here in the future. Now they are temporary and material. Not eternal—temporary. These are not peaceful. And you are connected with all these things, then how can you get peace? You cannot get peace.

So, if you want to get peace, then you have to be connected with the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, who is Supreme, eternal, peaceful, blissful, and full of happiness, sac-cid-ānanda-maya. Everything here is temporary and changing and changing, and at last, this material world will all be destroyed. When you are a child, you are getting some sort of pleasure. Do you understand? But that sort of pleasure is not there when you are a young man. When you attain youth, that pleasure changes. When you become old, there is no pleasure, no enjoyment.

saba sukha bhāgila, vṛddha-kāla āila saba sukha bhāgila (Kalyāṇa-kalpataru, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura)

Old age came, all happiness gone. Do you understand? All happiness gone. Old age came, no happiness—only suffering and suffering and suffering. So the soul is eternal; the Supersoul, the Supreme Lord Hari, is eternal, full of blissfulness, full of eternity. He is peaceful.

Gour Govinda Swami: The Upaniṣads say: ātmārāma. You have to see the soul, you have to hear about Him, you have to meditate on Him. Do you follow? How is it that the soul is so subtle? How can you see it? Where is it? It is in the heart, isn't it? Like the fire—fire is there inside a log of wood, isn't it? Do you follow me? There is fire inside a piece of wood. Similarly, the soul is there inside this body, in the heart. If you rub two pieces of wood with much force, fire will come out. But apparently, you cannot see the fire inside the wood. Similarly, you cannot see the soul, but the soul is there. Inside this body, in the heart, it is eternal. And the proof is there; it is evident that the material body has become conscious because of the presence of the soul. If the soul gets out of it, then this body is just a clump of dead matter. Then what is the value of this body?

Birds, bees, animals, and other species cannot cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They cannot cultivate this realization of the soul, ātma-anubhūti. But it can be cultivated in this human form of life. It is a rarely achieved birth. This is a superior level of consciousness. Do you understand? But you are always thinking of this body—material and temporary. If it is not peaceful, then how can you get peace? You are not thinking of Kṛṣṇa, not thinking of the soul. You are not making any arrangement for the soul's nourishment.

How will the soul be nourished? You are always engaged in making arrangements for the nourishment of the body—food for the body. You are toiling so hard, earning so much money, but as a result, you are only suffering and suffering and suffering. You cannot get peace and bliss and happiness. You should understand; you should learn how to make the arrangement for the food for the soul, which is really blissful and peaceful

Gour Govinda Swami: And it is not so difficult to make arrangements for the food for the soul, but it is very difficult to make arrangements for the body. You pay so much tax for bodily comforts, bodily happiness, and bodily enjoyment. "I want a pucca house, AC, air conditioning, so many arrangements for electricity and water supply." So much money is required, so much tax you have to pay. But do you pay any tax for sunlight? You pay tax for this electricity, but you don't pay any tax for sunlight—it is freely available. So, it is not very difficult to arrange food for the soul. It is very easily available. What is the food for the soul?

Devotee: Kṛṣṇa-kathā.

Gour Govinda Swami: Kṛṣṇa-kathā. All these Mahājanas—Nārada, Vyāsa, Śuka, Prahlāda—in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and the Śāstra, they have kept the food there. The Mahājanas are speaking about the Lord's name, fame, stories, and pastimes. These are the food for the soul. The soul becomes happy, the soul is nourished, the soul gets pleasure and peace. You understand? Therefore, if you want real peace, then you should develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You understand?

See Kṛṣṇa everywhere. See how everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. See how you belong to Kṛṣṇa. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa.

‘āmāra’ bolite prabhu! āre kichu nāi tumi-i āmāra mātra pitā-bandhu-bhāi (Śaraṇāgati, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura)

The Mahājana says: "O Kṛṣṇa, there is nothing I can say is mine. Everything belongs to You; I belong to You." If someone sees this and establishes himself in this eternal loving relationship with Kṛṣṇa—in other words, connects himself with this Supreme Lord who is blissful and peaceful—he gets real peace and bliss. Otherwise, nobody can get it. One who is engaged 24 hours a day in the loving service of Kṛṣṇa is all-blissful and all-peaceful. One who has developed love for Kṛṣṇa, who is the only object of love, is on a very peaceful and blissful platform.

Gour Govinda Swami: But in the conditioned state, the baddha-jīva (conditioned soul) cannot understand this thing, or doesn't know this thing. He has put his body, his home, his wife, his children, and his kith and kin on the platform of love instead of keeping Kṛṣṇa on the platform of love. And he tries very hard to get peace and bliss and happiness, but as a consequence, he gets only suffering, unhappiness, and pain—no peace. You understand? Because he has not put Kṛṣṇa, who is supremely peaceful and blissful, on the platform of love.

Kṛṣṇa says this in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

prītir na yāvan mayi vāsudeve na mucyate deha-yogena tāvat (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 5.5.6)

As long as you have not developed love for Me, Vāsudeva Kṛṣṇa, you cannot release yourself from the bondage of this body. You cannot release yourself from the cycle of birth and death. As long as you have put your body, home, wife, and children on the platform of love, you cannot get out of this material entanglement. As long as you have not developed love for Kṛṣṇa or Hari, you cannot get real peace, bliss, and happiness. If you can develop love for Lord Hari or Kṛṣṇa and make Him pleased, then you will be happy, peaceful, and blissful. And that is the perfection of possessing this body, mind, and intelligence. Do you understand

buddhīndriya-manaḥ-prāṇān janānām asṛjat prabhuḥ mātrārthaṁ ca bhavārthaṁ ca ātmane ’kalpanāya ca (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 10.87.2)

This verse says these things. That is the perfection of your mind, body, intelligence, and all senses—if you give pleasure to Lord Hari and Kṛṣṇa. Thank you all. This is the real tattva-jñāna. Imparting this tattva-jñāna of the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the real doing good. This is the only solution to do away with this poverty, driving away poverty from human society. Otherwise, you cannot find out. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gour Govinda Swami: So enlivening, isn't it? Immerse yourself in this flow, this continuous flow of kṛṣṇa-kathā. You will forget everything. Yes, you do. You will forget everything, all this material existence which is miserable. Where is your misery? Because it is so peaceful, so nectarian, so alive, isn't it? Now as the time passes, you cannot even feel it. This is practical. But these people cannot understand. No, impossible. (Laughs).

Gour Govinda Swami: You must do this. Hm. In this flow, this continuous flow of Kṛṣṇa... Huh? You'll forget everything.

Devotee: Yes, you do.

Gour Govinda Swami: (Laughs) You'll forget everything. All this material existence.

Devotee: Mm-hmm.

Gour Govinda Swami: Huh? This is miserable.

Devotee: Yes. (Laughs)

Gour Govinda Swami: Where is your misery? (Laughs) Because it's so peaceful, so peaceful.

Devotee: Mm-hmm.

Gour Govinda Swami: So nectarian, so enlivening.

Devotee: Yes.

Gour Govinda Swami: Uh-huh. You see? Now, the time passes, you cannot understand.

Devotee: Yes, it's practical.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, it's practical, but these people cannot understand. No, impossible. (Laughs). Ah, it's practical. See.

[A brief conversation follows regarding the widening of a gate or post on the property.]Devotee: Gurudeva!

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes?

Devotee: The holy name of the Lord and the Lord Himself is the same, right?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.

Devotee: But always, or only—

Gour Govinda Swami: Always, always, always.

Devotee: Not only when we chant without offense? Even if you chant with offense, it's the same?

Gour Govinda Swami: If you chant with offense, that is not the Name. How will it be the same? The pure name is Kṛṣṇa. But offensive chanting is not the same.

Devotee: Not the same.

Gour Govinda Swami: No. Without offense, if you chant—it is the same, it's Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Uh-huh.

Gour Govinda Swami: That is the pure name.

Devotee: Uh-huh.

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. But if you commit offense, that is not—

Devotee: Then it's not the same.

Gour Govinda Swami: That is not the Name. That is only alphabets. Uh-huh. This word is available in the dictionary. Follow me.

Devotee: Yes.

Gour Govinda Swami: Hare. Hare. Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa. Only alphabets. Only a word available in the dictionary. Do you follow?

Devotee: Yes.

Gour Govinda Swami: (Laughs)

Devotee: Sometimes one explanation I've read is that even if the holy name is disconnected—"Krish" is in one part of a word and "shna" is in another part—the benefit of saying Kṛṣṇa is still there?

Gour Govinda Swami: You see, the holy name has its benefit. You'll get some benefit. If you chant offensively, some benefit is there. Dharma, artha, kāma. Do you follow? It will fulfill all your material desires—kāma. It makes some advancement and some economic development also. Dharma—so-called dharma—even if it is offensive. And if you attain the nāmābhāsa stage, you get something more.

Devotee: Mokṣa.

Gour Govinda Swami: That is liberation. And that is the destruction of your prārabdha-karma. You get such things. Then with the pure name, you'll get kṛṣṇa-prema. You get Kṛṣṇa. That is not different. That's the highest thing. Yes. What our goal is, is that pure, offenseless chanting. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-prema. You'll be able to bind up Kṛṣṇa in the matter of love. Yes. And this holy name gives... Mahāprabhu gives this prema indiscriminately. One and all, without distinguishing. How? Through chanting this holy name.

If your chanting is pure and offenseless, that is Kṛṣṇa. You get Kṛṣṇa, you get kṛṣṇa-prema, you find Kṛṣṇa. You'll play with Kṛṣṇa, you'll talk with Kṛṣṇa, you'll deal with Kṛṣṇa. Give and take with Kṛṣṇa, like Kolavecha Śrīdhara and Nimāi Paṇḍita. Like Kṛṣṇa and Sudāmā. Like Kṛṣṇa and Vidura. Yes. Loving Kṛṣṇa, playing with Kṛṣṇa, joking with Kṛṣṇa, talking with Kṛṣṇa, eating with Kṛṣṇa. Everything with Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Hari bol!

Devotee: Thank you, Śrīla Gurudeva.

Gour Govinda Swami: Prabhupāda!