Special thanks to Sai Nidhi Mataji and Shrushti Nidhi Mataji
Devotee: Material consciousness. But you see the people and you think, "Well, they are actually residents of the Holy Dhām. They're part of Vaikuṇṭha." And they're performing many... them eating meat and doing many things like that. It's hard to actually understand the meaning of that.
Gour Govinda Swami: You see, don't develop such vision, materialistic outlook. See good, see bad in yourself. See good in others. Everything, everybody has some good, some evil. Everybody. So, this is to say this āptavākya, "See good in others, see bad in yourself." That is good for you. Why do you spot bad things in others? You have some bad also.
Devotee: Many.
Gour Govinda Swami: We have a saying, popular saying. A needle says to a sieve— "Oh, sieve, you have so many holes." And I will say, a sieve says to the needle. "Oh, needle, you have one hole, backside." The sieve has so many holes. Don't you follow me? Needle has one hole. But sieve has so many holes. But sieve says to the needle, "Oh, needle, you have one hole in the backside." Little bottom. One hole. But it is blind to its own holes. So many holes. Like that.
Devotee: Guru Maharaj we were down in Purī yesterday. And we stayed in one hotel there. And there were some boys walking around. They just seemed to be karmīs. So, we were thinking, well, our children were there. Should we let the children be with them because they're residents of the Holy Dhām?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, no, no. We should not allow our children to be with them. Children cannot understand them. Children rather will imbibe their nasty things. So, we should not allow our children to mix with them. Let them go to a sādhu. Stay with a sādhu. Have association with sādhu and hear what sādhu says. That is good for us.
You will go to the dhām, tīrtha, holy place. Huh? Tīrthapara sādhu saṅge. If you go to a holy place, place of pilgrimage, tīrtha, but do not have the association with sādhu there, then it is useless. Useless visiting that holy place or those holy places. Because the place has become holy, pure, tīrtha, place of pilgrimage, because of the residing sādhus there. Sādhus are there, sādhus are coming there. Staying there and doing bhajan, Hari-bhajan. They are always engaged in Hari-bhajan. So, the place has become holy place. Place of pilgrimage, tīrtha, because of the sādhus.
Otherwise, many sinful persons are going there to wash off their sins there, having a dip. Having a dip in the holy water. Tīrtha jal. The water available in that place is tīrtha jal. Jal means water. Many karmī people, sinful persons, they go there to wash off their sinful reactions, sins. They say, let us go to the dhām tīrtha, places of pilgrimage, holy place, and have a dip there. Snān, take bath, so we'll wash off all our sinful reactions. So, they are leaving their sinful reactions there. So, these people are coming there. So, you'll find some people there. Do you follow me? Sinful person, karmīs. With this intention, they are coming, so you find some people there. Have a dip there, wash off your sin.
And also, they give some charity there. Those who are wealthy people, Sheth log very wealthy people, they give some charity, donations, contributions to the temple to the spiritual organizations, sādhus living there feeding them nice food, bhāndara. And giving them clothes, some donations also. In this way, some sinful reactions will be washed.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: And we'll earn some spiritual... With that intention, they are coming there. So, you will find such people there. Yes. But place has become holy sādhu, tirtha because of the residence of the sādhu. If you want to go to such place, you should associate with such sādhu staying there and hear from them, have the sādhu saṅga. Then that is real dhām vās, real residence in the Dham. Otherwise, you don't do. You go there, but you don't do sadhu sanga. Then no value. After residing in a Dham, useless. Narottama Das Thakur says, kiba labha ganitya duradesha. What gain is there? Huh?
Devotee: Nothing.
Gour Govinda Swami: Going hundreds of thousands of miles. Spending thousands of rupees. What gain is there? You're losing rupees. (laughs) Yes. Suppose you want to go to Vrindavan Dham. Alright, I'll go to Vrindavan. So Vrindavan is so far a place from here. Especially from Australia so far off. Thousands of miles away. And you have to spend thousands of dollars or rupees. So, what benefit? (laughs) If you cannot have the association with sadhus there, then what benefit is there? Hmm. Useless. Jaha sadhu, jaha tirtha taha vrindavan. Wherever you find a sadhu, that is a holy place. That is Vrindavan. There is Krishna, there is you. Staying there, you are in Vrindavan. You are in Mathura. Yes.
So what benefit are you wasting so much money, energy, and time? We had no sleep at all. In the village? Yes. Many people came. Thousands of people. And our program begins after 8:00. Because there was this power cut from 7:00 to 8:00. One hour power cut. So, when electricity comes, then program begins. We begin. Thousands of people for two days came. Very nice. And last night, you see, I begin at 8:30 and ended up at 10:45.
Devotee: Acha? (laughs), Just lecture?
Gour Govinda Swami: Just lecture. These devotees, they chanted from beginning in the evening. But I begin my speech kirtan and speech at 8:30. And ended at 10:45. Still people are sitting and hearing. Yeah. They're very favourable. Good luck. Sitting, hearing.
Devotee: It was a village area?
Gour Govinda Swami: Village area. Hilly area. Really? You'll never find such wind blowing, the trees shaking. No. Trees are not shaking. Not a leaf is shaking. Very good. No wind. Like doldrum area. Yeah, no wind at all. Very hot.
Devotee: Very hot and sticky.
Gour Govinda Swami: Very hot. Hilly area. Again, many places people are, it's like burning some jungles, so fire is there. Such place. Very hot, you see.
Devotee: Who organized the program in that particular area?
Gour Govinda Swami: There are a few devotees, disciples there. They organize. Last year I went there. This year also. And previously I had been there also. So, we are coming back. We are staying in a dak bungalow. Came back and took some prasad, and it is 12:00. At 12:00, I went to bed. So, fan was there, but what happened, you see, I woke up at 2:00 am. Only two hours rest. Found out no light. It's off. No light, no fan, off.
So, I thought what shall I do? I want to go to toilet. It's all dark. Some cloud was there; some little wind was there. So, the light came, so I went to the toilet to pass urine. Again, light was off. It was so dark. What to do? Anyhow, I came out. I called this Ram Badra, "Where is torch?" He was sleeping outside, you see. So, he woke up and found torch. From then, I had no sleep. And it was all dark. No light, nothing.
So just at, I think 4:30, light came. The fan moved. No sleep. But it was very... I was very joyful, enjoyed some Krishna Katha. Yes, was engaged. So whole day we are engaged. In the morning there was Bhagavatam class. One of the residences of one of the devotees. He's a disciple, come see nice Bhagavatam class. Many people also went there. We gave prasad to everybody. So, then we came back to the bungalow to take some rest and I did my translation. So, at 5:00 pm again we went to another devotee's house residence, he's also our devoted disciple. Then evening is the whole day—
Devotee: Busy program.
Gour Govinda Swami: Krishna, Krishna Katha.
Devotee: Nice.
Gour Govinda Swami: Very nice. Such situations are there. Material condition, material situation, so hot, no light, nothing. Still, we never feel tired. Because it is transcendental.
Devotee: Well, we're in our conditioned state, still we're feeling this thing. How can we overcome the dualities that are there because we're still—
Gour Govinda Swami: Give up these dualities. Why such dualities?
Devotee: So, if one is—
Gour Govinda Swami: One will become what do you say? Self-realized. A self-realized soul. He only sees the soul, not the body. Then there'll be no duality. Bhagavad Gita says— Vidya, yes.
vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ BG [5.18]
Is equal vision. It develops equal... How will the vision be equal unless you see the soul and Supersoul with ease? If you see the body, then the duality is there, oh, the white body, black body, male body and female body, dog's body and cow's body, brahmin's body and candal's body. It is a duality. Differentiated vision. But you see the soul and super soul, there is no duality. This is a self-realized soul, who sees the soul and super soul. So, he is free from the dualities. Equally he has developed equal vision. No attachment and envy, rāga-dveṣa, isn't it? He's in Param Brahman, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Brahman platform.
That this is teaching and you have to practice it and you have to realize it. It is not theoretical. We may be saying like this, but unless we practice this, unless we realize this thing, it's a theoretical saying only. This won't help you. Unless you yourself practice in your life and it develops equal vision.
Devotee: So, when we're working for Krishna and we're feeling some tiredness, we should push ourselves through that and we get—
Gour Govinda Swami: Huh?
Devotee: If we push ourselves past that barrier of tiredness, then we get some realization?
Gour Govinda Swami: Anyhow, you have material body. Material body needs some rest. That's a fact. So, we have the system. Six hours rest. Out of 24 hours, six hours complete rest. Yes. That is a need and this is needed for our service for Krishna. Then we will be renewed vigour, we can serve. Yes.
Devotee: So, we should—
Gour Govinda Swami: Our body has not transformed into spiritual body like Haridas Thakur's body. So, the body needs food, ahara, nidra, needs rest. Yes. All the needs are there. Still we have this thing, we have desire. Yes. We take such food, Krsna Prasad, offered to Krsna. We don't take any other food. What Krsna has given us, His kripa, His mercy, food offered to Him. That we take as much as is required to keep this body fit for serving Krsna best. Not more or not less. Yes. And the body needs rest, six hours rest. That's all.
Devotee: So, we should be moderate in everything we do?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: What about when the inner body is a bit sick? You know, should we try and push on or should we rest the body a bit longer?
Gour Govinda Swami: Body becomes sick?
Devotee: Yeah, just a little, you know, nothing too bad but—
Gour Govinda Swami: Anyhow, sickness is accepted as Lord's mercy. Yeah. tat te ’nukampāṁ it’s Lord's mercy. I am a very sinful person, I have committed many sins. So much sinful reactions are there. The Lord is so merciful. He has inflicted some punishment on me that has come in form of sickness or disease. Thereby, Lord is destroying my sinful reactions. We accept in this way:
tat te ’nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam SB [10.14.8]
We tolerate it. jīveta yo mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk, who accepts in this way and tolerates it. Chants the holy name of the Lord. Now Lord has given me ample time. No other activities there, no other engagements. I am sick lying in the bed now. So only now one business. Chanting Hare Krsna bas! No other activity now. So, the Lord has given me such chance now. So much time he has given me now for chanting his holy name and test the nectar coming out from holy name, Nama Amrita Pan. Just do it. That is alright.
Devotee: What about when we're not really sure whether we're badly sick, but just wondering whether we should take it easy or maybe we should try and push on.
Gour Govinda Swami: Anyhow Sickness is sickness. Little or great, what is that? Body is sick, that's alright. So, I'll chant Hare Krsna. Now other activities are suspended now.
Devotee: So, we should adjust our situation, but always remember Krsna.
Gour Govinda Swami: In love, Krishna. There is one saying, you see. It's also there, the fact. Very elevated devotees, pure devotees. Those who are always in bhava stage. bhav, prema. Rupa Goswami, Sanatana Goswami. What they do? They're always in bhav stage. Always thinking of, always absorbed in that thought of Krsna. Which is very sweet and nectarian. They are just tasting nectar emanating from it. They see all transcendental leelas. They visualize every movement. Yes, that's a fact.
By chanting his holy name, krishnera samagra lila nami vidyamana. Harinam Chintamani says, Bhaktivinoda Thakura says, this holy name is not different from Krsna. If you are chanting pure name, offenseless name, then it is Krsna. As soon as you chant, you see the beautiful form of Krsna. Not only beautiful form, all transcendental leaders will manifest before you, make more advancement. Yes, that's a fact. krishnera samagra lila nami vidyamana. Therefore it is said, all the lilas of Krsna, they are in holy name. Yes. Because he is not different from Krsna.
So those Goswamis, they always thought of Krsna chanting, sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih. Sad Goswami Astakam, it is said. They have prescribed number of rounds to chant as we have. As Haridas Thakur was chanting three lakhs of names, 24 hours, prescribed number. They have prescribed number of chanting. Prescribed times they are paying obeisances, natibhih. 500 times or 200 times like this. sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih absorbed, always absorbed. And in their meditational mind they are offering. Offering, they are preparing some bhog prasad and offering to the Lord in the mind, isn't it?
In Nectar of Devotion, you find one description is there how a sadhu in his mind offered kheer, sweet rice. He prepared and he wanted to offer it to the Lord and thought of, oh it is very hot, it is not good to offer hot sweet rice, let it be calmed down. So, he put his finger into it. Everything in meditation he is doing as his finger was burnt. How is it? His finger was burnt. Similarly, Rupa Goswami once thought of like that, I love her, I'll prepare very nice sweet rice and offer it to Govinda. So, he thought of that thing. They don't eat much, they eat very little. So, he prepared in meditation. And actually, once also when he thought of like that. But they had nothing. They have no money to buy nice rice, milk, sugar. No nothing. How could he do it?
So Radharani came in the form of a young girl said, oh, Swamiji, I have brought some seedha for you. Seedha that means some presentations. Nice rice, milk, sugar. Please accept it. Radharani came and gave it. He had just thought of that. If I can help, I can prepare a nice sweet rice for Govinda. Then we prepare it. He prepared it and offered it to Govinda. everything he offered. And he didn't eat it. Just little one grain like that. Just to honour the prasad he did it and distributed everything because all sadhus staying there are some cowherd boys.
But in the morning, he couldn't get up, could not come out from his cottage. He was sick. You are very sleepy. Nearby people came while Swamiji is not getting up. What had happened to him? He is sick. They understood that Swamiji was sick, so they called for a physician. Kaviraj came and tested the pulse and said, "Oh, too much milky food. Milky food he has taken." So, you see this was said.
So, Sanatana Goswami came, Sanatana Goswami is elder brother Rupa Goswami is younger brother. Elder brother means master. So, he chastised him. "Why? Why did you engage Radharani in your service? You should not do like this anymore." Sanatana Goswami chastised. Huh. You engage Radharani. Why? Are there?
Devotee: You know, just always mentions that the manjaris are always serving right around him. So, Krsna. Yes. But as you just explained, that in the past times of the manjaris, in the material world, the Radharani is coming to help them serve Krsna. It seems like a reversal.
Gour Govinda Swami: Because they are very intimate to Radharani. Radharani’s dear girl companions. But what I said as soon as Rupa thought of like that, you know, I think if I can prepare very nice sweet rice and offer it to Govinda, just thinking so immediately in the form of a very young girl, Radharani came and gave all these things, you see. He said, "Who are you?" "I am a girl from this village." Radharani says "I am girl from this village. And my mother has sent all these things for you. Please accept this customary." This is customary here in India. People give some these nice presentations. Ghee, rice, vegetables, sugar. Yes, offer it to sadhu. Yes, this is customary.
Devotee: Guru Maharaj in Goloka Vrindavan. We understand that everyone serving in like a hierarchy. But actually, is it going on like that all the time that Radharani is helping all girlfriends and it's all a back-and-forth relationship.
Gour Govinda Swami: What in.
Devotee: In Goloka Vrindavan is it always necessary that the manjaris are simply serving around Radharani or even there? Does she—
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes under, under guidance of RadhaRani or under the guidance of the Dear Sakis? Asthasakhis is like this. So that is our goal of life. kabe hoibo rādhāra dāsī. Bhakti Vinod Thakur says kabe hoibo rādhāra dāsī when I shall be made servant of Radharani and serve Krsna. When we offer worship to Tulsi Devi. We cherish this desire, ye tomara sarana loy, tara vancha purna hoy Tulasi Maharani. Oh, Tulasi Devi, you are so dear to krishna-preyasi, very dear to Krishna. One who takes shelter of you, all his desires are fulfilled. I have this desire, oh, vraje radha-krishna-seva pabo ei abilashi. I have this desire. How can we get opportunity to serve Radha and Krsna in Vraja bhumi?
At last, seva-adhikara diye koro nija dasi, heribo sada yugala-rupa-rasi. Understand, well, he sees that beautiful form of Radha and Krishna in the kunja. kunja seva-adhikara, please fulfill this desire of my desire. To serve Radha and Krsna in Kunja, his Kunja seva-adhikara. But no male is allowed there in the kunja group. No male is allowed, all females. Then you have to become a sakhi or manjari. Otherwise, how can you go there and serve? So that is our desire. When we offer Tulasi Puja prayer, we sing this thing. The last thing is seva-adhikara diye koro nija dasi. Oh, Tulasi Maharani, please make me one of your maidservants. And under your guidance, leadership, I will serve Radha Krsna in the Kunja. That we offer. This is our desire. Yes.
Devotee: Guru Mahārāj, in relation to the topic you were speaking the other day about the disciple and the guru. So, a disciple is cent percent surrendered at the lotus feet of a paramahamsa guru, that means he's already achieved that relationship of Radha and Krsna in the Kunja, like that?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, that is one of the facets of guru nikuñja-yūno rati-keli-siddhyai, is Radha priya sakhi, is dear girl companion of Radharani. So, that is guru. Yes. Two things are there, they are guru, guru tattva. In the Guru ashtaka,
sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam
This is one. Then:
nikuñja-yūno rati-keli-siddhyai yā yālibhir yuktir apekṣaṇīyā tatrāti-dākṣyād ati-vallabhasya vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam
It is two things. In all sastras it is said sākṣād-dhari, is as good as Lord Hari, is very dear to Lord Hari, Mukunda Prastha. Very dear is as good as. Priya, prabhorja priyo, very dear, very intimate. This is one side. Another side, nikuñja-yūno he is very expert in uniting Radha and Krsna in the kunja groove. rati-keli-siddhyai in this affairs, loving affairs of Radha and Krsna uniting. Very expert. That means sakhi manjari, these two sides is guru. Yes. That's guru tattva.
Devotee: Okay. I was reading today a pastime where out of appreciation for Vrinda Devi's service to Radha and Krsna, Radharani made a throne and seated Krsna on it. And then she seated Vrinda Devi next to Krsna.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: And performed a bit like a marriage ceremony. So that way, that's also an example of Radharani's service.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, Tulasi, Vrinda Devi is very dear to Krsna. Yes.
Devotee: That's a kind of—
Gour Govinda Swami: And also, very merciful. In fact, therefore, we offer worship to Tulasi. She has become Tulasi plant here. That story is there in Brahma Vaivarta purana. Therefore, we offer her. I put always Tulasi with the Krishna on the altar. And morning and evening, we offer worship, parikramas or circumambulate chant. They get her mercy in order to get this thing. If Tulasi Devi will shower her mercy on us, then we'll become Radha's dasi, then we will become the maidservant of Radharani. That is our goal of life. Yes, that's a fact.
By the mercy it is mentioned, by the mercy of Tulasi Devi, once Lord Shiva could see rasa dance from a distance. Other Shiva couldn't. Once. And Narada Muni also once saw by the mercy of Tulasi. Yes, Tulasi is so merciful. Therefore, we offer worship to her and pray and beg her mercy, this is what. All right, thank you. Hari, Hari, Hari, Hari.
Devotee: Haribol.