Transcription made by: Deekshita mataji, Ananya mataji, Yati Sekhara Dasa
Gour Govinda Swami: Just carrying out and executing the order of the spiritual master is always prepared, just waiting, "What order is coming to me?" Carrying out that order.
Devotee: This is a question, Guru Mahārāja, we would like to ask in the darśana, personal darśana, but I can ask anyway. It's not, it's nothing confidential. In the temple, I used to do deity worship, especially our old temple, ISKCON. There are many, many mātājīs doing the service. And, very few girls who do worship [...], or Deities everywhere, in the altar.
Gour Govinda Swami: Mmm.
Devotee: So, for a brahmacārī, that thing is not good.
Gour Govinda Swami: It is not good, yes.
Devotee: Should not, they should not accept this kind of service.
Gour Govinda Swami: Not good.
Devotee: Is that the solution, Mahārāja? Not to, not to accept that service?
Devotee: The solution?
Gour Govinda Swami: When you are there, in that temple or not in the temple, temple authorities say. What can we do? You see? We must obey. We are in the temple. What to do?
Devotee: But still, Guru Mahārāja, very dangerous. Example, I used to do deity worship in London. All the pūjārīs actually. They were all mātājīs.
Gour Govinda Swami: Oh
Devotee: Female.
Gour Govinda Swami: West is west, you see. My Guru Mahārāja jokes that west means premixing of men and women, premixing.
Devotee: 'Cause here in India, Vṛndāvana..
Gour Govinda Swami: In India we have restrictions. We have restrictions.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: We will never allow a woman to do Deity worship in the temple. Not in India, not allowed. Women can do in, in her house, deity, house deity, family deity, then she can do, but not in temple. Women can do other service, she can cook. You see.
Devotee: Serve.
Gour Govinda Swami: Make garlands, the dresses, like that. Like other. Doing other services, she may.
Devotee: Anytime, place for it?
Gour Govinda Swami: Not deity worship.
Devotee: So, in this, in this situation, Guru Mahārāja, the question I ask, just ask you about the, when you leave, do pūjā in the temple, a lot of mātājīs like that. So if you're in the temple, they will ask you to do. Because, uh, I find some, if in that case, will you benefit or recommend to say no, don't want to do service in such situation?
Gour Govinda Swami: Do the service. (not sure if the words are same) I'm brahmacārī. So many ladies are there. So, in such congregation of ladies, how can I do it? If you make some arrangement, then I will do deity worship. No lady will enter into you, your area.
Devotee: It's always the way.
Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs)
Devotee: All the time doing it. They're always actually women, most pūjārī there, dressing, cooking, and they are doing all cleaning. All of them. I remember one time in London, a few months ago, it was only, only men did worship all the day.
Gour Govinda Swami: Horrible situation. Very horrible situation, bad situation.
Devotee: Has a very bad effect on the, uh-
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: consciousness, Mahārāja.
Gour Govinda Swami: Oh, no, that is there. That's quite natural.
Devotee: I had to do like that, seven years brahmacārī. I always working with women. Now, I'm working with a woman all the time, married.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, that's horrible situation, I know. But according to our regulations, it’s not at all. Could be, you see, not the same.
Devotee: And even sometimes they don't hesitate to ask you, ‘you know prabhujī, you should accept a wife.’
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah. They are just, uh-
Devotee: Because they-
Gour Govinda Swami: ... persuading you.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes. We have cut off with this tail; you cut off now.
Devotee: Mm-hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: Once there was a jackal. Jackal, you understand? He was sitting on a log of wood. The persons who saw the wood, they saw it and, put a, what do you say?
Devotee: Strike?
Gour Govinda Swami: Strike. And so there was some crack opening like that.
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: So the jackal's tail was hanging down in between that crack. Anyhow, that was how he got out of it.
Gour Govinda Swami: But out of it, so chopped. And its tail was cut off. So he went into the jungle. The other jackals saw. So strange jackal coming with no tail. And he said, "This is very good, I have cut off my tail, now you all cut off your tails." (laughs)
Devotee: (laughs)
Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs)
Speaker 3: (laughs)
Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs) Like this. "Oh, you accept it."
Devotee: (laughs)
Gour Govinda Swami: "We'll arrange." (laughs) "You accept the wife now and go. Okay for you, so there is no problem now." He wrote me this one.
Devotee: (laughing)
Gour Govinda Swami: The temple president, he is a gṛhastha. He has cut off his tail.
Devotee: (laughing)
Gour Govinda Swami: Cut off his tail. Cut off his tail. So, he will face no problem. Wife face problem.
Devotee: Association is very important, Guru Mahārāja, in this matter, it is very important.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: Cause if I want to be, somehow or other in the temple, in this situation… affecting here to us. Otherwise, it would be easy. Maybe changeable. Cause maybe devotees, they depend completely of instruction of the temple president.
Devotee: I have confidence, especially in my spiritual master. I can't accept this unless, I mean, whether they say, "Oh, no, it's okay." Then we can insist it. For me, I say no.
Gour Govinda Swami: So that is a test for you. Test. How, how you are fixed.
Devotee: It's because your message. It's really a big problem. My mind is completely disturbed.
Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs)
Devotee: But, I was just, temple president asked me very quickly, buddy, and then becomes some kind of condemnation. But still, but I accept their service. I would like to stop to do the service anymore. Not anymore, but it was only arrangement for me to do service, that service for the temple, and then do some collection. They give me some facilities. Otherwise, I would-
Gour Govinda Swami: All right. Kṛṣṇa can do and other things. He's all powerful. He can do anything. Pray to Him. Kṛṣṇa, I am in such a position. I want to keep up my vow of brahmacarya, very strictly. But here is such dangerous situation. What shall I do? Unless You protect me. Kṛṣṇa can do anything, you see. He can change the situation. Yes. Within a moment everything is going to change. At once
Devotee: I was even going to write letter to this man, tell him, "Guru Mahārāja will be really slated." You know, just, I just told them to see my spiritual master.
Gour Govinda Swami: (laughs)
Devotee: So now I have come here. I think I, of course, missed that information. Um, By now, you’re giving spiritually giving instruction, that's my life. Now I'm asking in the, that case, what should I do if I live in such temple? It's very important.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. If it is incorrigible now, correct? Mm, you see, you can't make no change there. You see? One should be content. Most important is spiritual life is most important. That life is most important. You must take care of that life. You won't allow it to be spoiled. Not allow it. Take care of it. But then, Western world, wherever you go, you'll find the same situation.
Devotee: Mm-hmm
Gour Govinda Swami: Same situation. You have to take care. Anyhow, Kṛṣṇa can do and other things, that we cannot conceive. It's inconceivable. He can do it. Pray to Him.
Devotee: Thank you. Guru Mahārāja, how our prayer can become deep? Because, that's another thing. We have to pray 'cause He's there to help us.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: Sometimes we, honestly speaking, we, our prayer is not very deep. How can-
Gour Govinda Swami: If it is not deep, how, why Kṛṣṇa will hear it? It will never be heard. If it is not deep, if it doesn't come from the core of your heart, it is superfluous, from lips it is coming, it's not from here. Kṛṣṇa will never listen to it. So, come out from the cover of your heart. Most important.
Devotee: It does depend how we are sincere. It depend on-
Gour Govinda Swami: Huh, how, how serious you are.
Devotee: Serious.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, how you are serious. How you are seriously taking it. Seriously accepting. It's the question of seriousness.
Devotee: Mahārāja?
Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm?
Devotee: Does, does that mean that if one is a brahmacārī-
Gour Govinda Swami: Hmm.
Devotee: and he decides to accept a wife that means he's not so serious about spiritual life?
Gour Govinda Swami: No. He should take permission of the Guru. Guru knows everything. Unless Guru gives permission, how can you accept?
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: You know, Guru see the passion is very great in him. So, he must accept. Guru tries to elevate him from passion, state of passion, to the goodness. Sattva-guṇa. Finds, your Guru finds, "No, that's not very correct in him." He cannot be elevated. When we have this instruction, like that. "So, let him enter into the fire and get a good lesson." Then he might learn. Then Guru gives permission, all right. But therefore, before entering into the fire, become fire-proof. Become fire-proof. Yes.
Devotee: Fearful?
Gour Govinda Swami: Huh?
Devotee: Fearful, did you say?
Devotee: Fire-proof.
Gour Govinda Swami: Fire-proof.
Devotee: Oh, fire-proof.
Gour Govinda Swami: The ghee pot will remain with the fire pot, but will never melt.
Devotee: Understand.
Gour Govinda Swami: That's sādhana. Thus, he is fire-proof. Then real gṛhastha. Real gṛhastha. Vaiṣṇava gṛhastha. So, prepare yourself before entering into the fire, to become fire-proof. When I see that, ‘no reason, I am fire-proof’, then I’ll not allow you. Otherwise, entering the fire. You are not fire-proof.
Devotee: (laughing)
Devotee: But Guru Mahārāja gave me that inspiration for all my life, so how can I be. In any circumstances, I can't think of fire.
Gour Govinda Swami: You should not think of it. Put Kṛṣṇa in your mind. Why all other thoughts come into your mind? You know? Very hard test. Hard test.
Devotee: If someone, for example, a devotee said because he's not fixed, he’s inferior. Like that, I know a brahmacārī, one sees a brahmacārī for sometime, he's not fixed. So what's-
Gour Govinda Swami: Should be fixed. That won't help him. If someone is not fixed, how can he tread the path? Cannot. He may be off the path on any moment. Yeah. Should be fixed. Should be fixed. Yes. (foreign language)
Devotee: They have no protection from mosquitoes?
Gour Govinda Swami: He said no.
Devotee: None?
Gour Govinda Swami: That smoke.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: He said what?
Devotee: Frankincense. None?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, it's finished, you see? Did not buy from market.
Gour Govinda Swami: You have something?
Devotee: Mosquito coil?
Gour Govinda Swami: Coil?
Devotee: Oh.
Gour Govinda Swami: Is there?
Devotee: Many mosquitoes are there.
Devotee: So, Guru Mahārāja, and also, this is depend also of, uh, how old this disciple is. He said he doesn't want another... What can I do?
Gour Govinda Swami: Though age is a criteria, criteria one of, still not so important. Important is the mind. Yes. Mind is most important thing. Even the old man also, they are put in trouble also, Saubhari Muni, I narrated that thing. All the story about the young man, old man also. So strong mind. This mind. If you can put Kṛṣṇa in your mind always, then you will be protected. Kṛṣṇa is a aprākṛta navina madana. Madana means Cupid. Cupid. Cupid. In material world, there is cupid. That cupid enchants you, attracts you. But if you can fix your mind on that navina-madana — always young Cupid, that is Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa. He is not material Cupid, whose beauty is extraordinary beauty. That means kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobham. His beauty exalts the beauty of the crores of Cupids. Kṛṣṇa's beauty. If you can see such beauty, your eye will never see this ugly beauty of the mind. Oh, these are ugly. The witch. No? But you cannot see such beauty, so you see this beauty, ugly beauty. Your heart is... Mm-hmm. So what is the question of young or old? Person may be old, but he cannot see such things. He sees this ugly, beauty also. Ooh. Keep it here. See if it can dry a bit. Some.
Devotee: Mahārāja. Just like we are talking, Prabhupāda says when you are disturbed by this woman thing, so you think of Rādhā, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and the amorous pastimes. So what we are saying is it's not material. It's on a spiritual platform. But still, it's amorous pastimes. So, in our old time, we always see all this, uh, erotic design in the temples. And also, Prabhupāda is giving the example of Śaṅkarācārya when he met this, the leader of, karma-kāṇḍa philosophy. His wife wanted to talk with him about erotical principles.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: So he said, "Yes, I will talk." But what is this kind of talk? Why? He is a sannyāsī, and he's talking, he wants to talk about this?
Gour Govinda Swami: Ah, yeah, because there was a, how to say, debate. And challenge was there. Challenge.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: And Śaṅkarācārya was defeated by Maṇḍana Miśra's wife. She put such questions on sexual affairs, and Śaṅkarācārya was brahmacārī. He had no experience at all, no knowledge about it. So-
Devotee: Hmm.
Gour Govinda Swami: He was defeated and he said, "All right, I'll answer these questions. You wait for some time." So he left that body. He went out of his body and asked some of his disciples, followers, to keep this body, take care of this body as if this body will never be destroyed. He is a great yogi. He can do it. So, he just moved in his subtle body. And one king, you see, so king of some, state was dead, you see. He was just carried to the burning pyre, cremation ground. His dead body goes to, put into fire. Burn that dead body. But, you see, Śaṅkarācārya, by his yogic mystic, yogic perfection he entered into the dead body of that king, and king got up. All were happy. "Oh, king is now alive, not dead." Śaṅkarācārya entered into the form. The Śaṅkarācārya went into the... So that king went into the palace. The all queens are very happy. So now Śaṅkarācārya could do this sexual. Now he led some sexual life and gathered some experience. Then he left that body of the king and came back and entered into his former body. Then he went to the Maṇḍana Miśra's wife and answered all her questions. See, he can do, Śaṅkarācārya. He's such a great yogi. He has such power, but you have no such power. You can't do it. You can't do it.
Devotee: Then the question is, like, Lord Śiva, he has always this, intimate pastime with Pārvatī and I know we, we don't discuss this kind of subject, mādhurya-rasa, but is it this mādhurya-rasa where lies the, in this, pastimes or in these activities lies the highest truth?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Very high. The highest thing is very difficult to understand.
Gour Govinda Swami: rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti / kabe hāma bujhaba se yugala-pīriti. Śrīla Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, when can I understand that prīti between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa? When Rūpa and Raghunātha will shower their mercy on me, then I will be able to understand. Otherwise, I cannot. Not an easy thing to understand. No, not easy thing to understand. Very high thing. High process.
Devotee: The way we should understand it Guru Mahārāja is by hearing from the?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah. By hearing from such devotees, such liberated mahā-bhāgavata. And if He showers His mercy on you and make you eligible, then you can understand. Otherwise, you can't understand. Can't understand. Therefore, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura prayed, rūpa-raghunātha-pade haibe ākuti kabe hāma bujhaba se yugala-pīriti. Unless Rūpa and Raghunātha showers their mercy on me, I cannot understand this. Not an easy thing. It's not an easy thing.
Devotee: But is a sporting activity of Lord Śiva and Pārvatī also in this kind of level? Or it's material only?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, Pārvatī is material energy. Material energy. You know, Śivajī, he's very, he's mahā-yogī. He is a yogī also. And he could restrain the senses. Still, sometimes he fails. He fails. When Śivajī could see the Mohinī-mūrti, he ran behind her. And discharge semen also. So, naturally naked, Śivajī. Still ran. Can't check himself. He couldn't check himself, restrained himself, you see. Such great yogī, Śivajī, who could drink even ocean-like poison. Such great yogī. What to speak about us? Very difficult.
Devotee: So it might have been unless, unless we hear properly the pastime of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa tattva or guru-tattva-
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: ... properly, spiritual activities?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Yes. Then you cannot. This disease cannot be cured. api anati rudro gatanam. That's a hard disease. rudro gatanam. Yeah. Therefore, those pastimes are there, and that should be heard from the proper source, proper source. Proper source. Yes?
Devotee: But if it's not from the proper source, then it has a poisonous effect?
Gour Govinda Swami: Poisonous effect. Yeah. Then opposite will happen there. sarpocchiṣṭaṁ yathā payaḥ. sarpocchiṣṭam. avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyaṁ sarpocchiṣṭaṁ yathā payaḥ. Payaḥ means milk. If snake touches it, it becomes poison. If you drink that milk, you get the result of poison, not milk. Similarly, I say, if one is not a bona fide Vaiṣṇava sādhu, don't listen to him. This Hari kathāmṛta. The nectarean pastimes of Lord Hari, don't listen to him because it produces reverse effect. Poisonous effect.
Devotee: Even if, if he's just reading, if he's just reading what's there, still has the same effect, even if he isn't explaining it in some way?
Gour Govinda Swami: When you read, if you are not a realized soul, you can't understand it. If you're not in that level. śuddha sttva sthiti. The stage of śuddha-sattva. If you are not in that, you can't understand it. And also, it will produce the reverse effect also. Think of, just compare it to your mundane lust, activities and all. Lusty activities, like that.
Devotee: Mahārājī, often, just about everything we have to speak from the scriptures. And we're not realized in the scriptures, but we might have to, we may have to give class or we may have to speak from the scriptures. We're not realized. So, what, what effect does that have on the audience?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, you will speak what you have heard from your Guru, just speak that. My Guru has said this thing, just I am repeating it. There's nothing of mine.
Devotee: Old Prabhupāda preaching, we, love Prabhupāda. So, Prabhupāda was such a mahājana, we already know of this thing. But, you can't hear really, you know, Śrīla Prabhupāda discussing science of the Rādhā tattva, guru-tattva, the way you may expect to listen. So-
Gour Govinda Swami: You may listen to it. Tapes are there, you may hear what they say, this thing.
Devotee: Prabhupāda doesn't discuss that. In Prabhupāda tapes, you, you can find tapes Prabhupāda discussing Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa tattva?
Gour Govinda Swami: Not so.
Devotee: No?
Gour Govinda Swami: Why he'll discuss? Because he knows these people can't understand it what I say.
Devotee: So, our centres, for example, I found real different last time. They give to Caitanya-caritāmṛta class, ādi-līlā, appearance of Lord Caitanya. He said reason, antaraṅga and bahiraṅga, all these things. And, this thing, I discussed through Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa tattva, but in our centres, we don't, we don't attend to that discussion. That mean, uh, very difficult to, to understand.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, difficulty.
Devotee: Because, you know, such person who cannot, can teach or can-
Gour Govinda Swami: Therefore, this Caitanya-caritāmṛta is postgraduate study. Postgraduate study. One who is a student of postgraduate class, so he can sit in that class and listen. Otherwise you cannot listen. You cannot understand it. Yes.
Devotee: Mahārājī, the other night you were discussing the process of deity worship, in the temple. And, I wasn't there, but some of the devotees were telling you what they were saying. When I asked you in Australia, you, explained to me how to offer the different articles. So, maybe it's because of the way I speak also, but, from what I understood, you were saying that when we do pūjā, on the altar, we offer first to Guru.
Gour Govinda Swami: No, take permission from Guru. Not offer. I told that. Take permission from Guru. Then offer to Deities, then Guru will serve the remnants. Yes.
Devotee: So, when we take the incense..
Gour Govinda Swami: Whatever(indistinct)
Devotee: So, we offer first to Kṛṣṇa. Then to Gaura-Nitāi.
Gour Govinda Swami: Before offering, take permission from Guru. Yes. Please enable me to offer this for the Deities. Yes, like this. Every time you take permission.
Devotee: But when you take the permission, means you offer it first or when you, what means taking the permission? You have to?
Gour Govinda Swami: Asking for permission in your mind. Just to ask for permission. Yes. And then offer.
Devotee: Then Rādhā?
Devotee: Then come down to Kṛṣṇa and then?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: So, we were taught completely opposite to that in Australia. First you offer Prabhupāda, then you offer Nityānanda, then Caitanya.
Gour Govinda Swami: No. If Nityānanda Caitanya is there, you separate altar, not same altars. Nityānanda Caitanya and Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa cannot be in one altar. No. Only Caitanya Gaura Mahāprabhu may be there with Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. No Nityānanda, no. Taking permission from Guru, not first offering to Guru. When you do guru-pūjā separately, they will offer to everybody.
Devotee: Only that way rāj bhog is offered? Cooked? when he offers to his Guru, because he is pure devotee.
Gour Govinda Swami: You can offer to Guru separately. rāj bhog is offered to the deities and Guru takes the remnants.
Devotee: Oh. So, if I'm a pūjārī and I take the offering plate into the deities, I'm begging permission of Guru.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, just begging permission. But offering is made to the deities.
Devotee: Mahārāja, in England, in the Manor, they make a completely separate plate for the Guru. They have one plate for Guru, one plate for Guru Mahārāja.
Gour Govinda Swami: Separate, separate. If you can make separate plate for Guru, separately offer to Guru.
Devotee: They offer all at the same time. Guru, Radha Krsna, and Lord Nitāi.
Gour Govinda Swami: Separate plates.
Devotee: Separate plates. With different mantras?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, different mantras. separate plates. Not the same plate. They are saying if you offer, you may offer separate plate to Guru. Yes, not the same plate. No. Separate.
Devotee: I think what they said, they said, meant that is, for example we have three set of deities—Gaura-Nitāi, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, and then maybe Lord Jagannātha.
Gour Govinda Swami: So three, three, three pūjārīs must be there.
Devotee: And on altar, what, what we do in altar, we have one plate, all items for Gaura-Nitāi, for Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, for Jagannātha, Baladeva and Subhadrā. And in another thali, we put for spiritual master. That means four.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, separate, separate.
Devotee: And then, spiritual master is Śrīla Prabhupāda on the altar. The rest is all other plates. But only one pūjārī offers.
Gour Govinda Swami: One pūjārī?
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Difficult for one pūjārī.
Devotee: He has to offer each plate separately?
Gour Govinda Swami: Huh?
Devotee: He has to offer each plate separately?
Gour Govinda Swami: Separately. Definitely. What to do? Yes. Better to have three altars and three pūjārīs must be there. It's difficult for one pūjārī.
Devotee: In our temple, we don't do that, Mahārāja. Only one pūjārī, he offers everything.
Gour Govinda Swami: Because you put āsana. You put āsana. And pray the Deities to sit, take their āsana- seats, sit down and take. They always come down and sit in the āsanas, and take simultaneously. And they are taking, Lord Jagannātha is waiting. Suppose now you offer now Gaura-Nitāi. Now They are sitting and taking prasāda, and now you are offering Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Then Lord Jagannātha is waiting there. Then what about Jagannātha? And when They will take the prasāda, you should not be there inside the temple. You should come out. You should come out. The pūjārī should not be there inside. Should come out. So it's difficult.
Devotee: The idea, the idea beyond is that when you offer food to Kṛṣṇa, but with Jagannātha, Baladeva, Subhadrā Devi there, Gaura-Nitāi there, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa there, the same as they're all Kṛṣṇa. You can offer only one plate that Kṛṣṇa accepts all these forms. So they don't, they don't offer separately Gaura-Nitāi and then Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Jagannātha, Subhadrā, and then Guru. Just once.
Gour Govinda Swami: You can't do so. Can't do so.
Devotee: So then it's wrong?
Gour Govinda Swami: Jagannātha, Balabhadra, Subhadrā, and Gaura-Nitāi, and simultaneously Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa? How can you do it? No. No. Different, separate.
Devotee: So what you're saying must be, the solution is that must be three pūjārīs.
Gour Govinda Swami: Three pūjārīs.
Devotee: Or you offer one after another.
Gour Govinda Swami: Three pūjārīs, three pūjārīs. Simultaneously offer and leave the temple. Let them take prasāda.
Devotee: So in in Navaniti, if the Deity has pūjārīs.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, that's the process. That is the process.
Devotee: Then for Deities, we offer āsana?
Gour Govinda Swami: That is the process. Yes, process. Yes. Otherwise, server we commit offense. seva aparadh. seva aparadh.
Devotee: We do some pūjārī service at the Manor. And we offer the breakfast offering like this. Like we put three plates and just say the one mantra for all the Deities. So what, what are we supposed to do now? That's the system there.
Gour Govinda Swami: If three altars are there, three pūjārīs should be there.
Devotee: But it's, that's not the case.
Gour Govinda Swami: That means that is offensive.
Devotee: So should I stop doing it?
Gour Govinda Swami: Unless there is three pūjārīs, the sevā will be offensive.
Devotee: So I should stop doing it.
Gour Govinda Swami: Offensive sevā.
Devotee: Mahārāja, your disciples who are working, doing devotional service in the centres. They have to do an offering to the Deity, only one person. So, how can they do without committing an offense and at the same time follow the order of the president?
Gour Govinda Swami: Temple authority says unless three pūjārīs and three altars are there. Other than that, how? You commit sevā-aparādha. Go there offering. They won't receive. And that question is also, that question has also raised in last time in the mission meeting, so even committee has been formed by team. They will, some standard of devotion, some paper will come out on standard of devotion. So all centres will, same standard will be maintained. Some are working on it.
Devotee: Still, we should remain situated in service.
Gour Govinda Swami: In ātmavat-sevā, you see? mūrtira ātmavat-sevā. That Mahāprabhu is teaching. sevā, service, the love, sevā should be done as Mother Yaśodā was doing service to Kṛṣṇa. Rādhārāṇī was serving Kṛṣṇa like that. ātmavat-sevā with love, with love should do. ātmavat-sevā. śrī-mūrtira ātmavat-sevā. śraddhāya-sevana. śrī-mūrtira śraddhāya-sevana. Mahāprabhu says. Suppose three brothers are sitting or eating. First you give one brother, then two brothers are waiting. He will eat. Then they're waiting. Simultaneously they will eat. You see? Well, first you will offer Gaura-Nitāi, finished, just wake them, "Please come down, sit and take." They came down, sat down and taking. And Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa is waiting, Jagannātha is waiting. What is this?
Devotee: Post-dining shift.
Gour Govinda Swami: ātmavat-sevā, Mahāprabhu says. śrī-mūrtira śraddhāya-sevana. Yes.
Devotee: sevā-aparādha.
Gour Govinda Swami: sevā-aparādha. You are just treating like idol. Idols. sevā-aparādha.
Devotee: I think in most of the temples around the world they do that actually. They offer all one-time, different plates, but one lot of mantras, finished.
Gour Govinda Swami: With one mantra? Oh.
Devotee: They just say it one time. You know, namo brahmaṇya-devāya go brahmana hitaya. First they say the praṇāmas to Guru. And then namo maha vadanyaya then namo brahmaṇya-devāya. The four mantras.
Gour Govinda Swami: That's all right. But you first have the seat, āsana must be put. Seat must be put. Then pray to, "Please come down and sit here." To accept prasāda, so. You'll ask all at once, all one time?
Devotee: Yeah, that's what we do. Everyone gets asked same time, "Please come sit down."
Gour Govinda Swami: All at one time? Gaura-Nitāi, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Jagannātha, at one time?
Devotee: That's the standard.
Gour Govinda Swami: They do like that?
Devotee: All over the, every temple, practically around. Except in India. Except some in India. That one will have to. Those ones I have been to, you know.
Gour Govinda Swami: All at once, one time?
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: One mantra?
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: Gaura-Nitāi was same mantra, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa same mantra, Jagannātha same mantra? No, mūla-mantra is different, different, different. You must offer mūla-mantra. Now doing one mantra, different mantra. Mantra is different.
Devotee: You see, when I first started doing deity worship at the Manor, sometimes I would do some offering when I first started, and I didn't even know the mantras.
Gour Govinda Swami: They don't know the mantras, yes.
Devotee: They didn't even say. Now I know. Then I didn't know. And still I'd be on the altar and go.
Gour Govinda Swami: That's not proper advice. Some aparādha is there, sevā-aparādha. So three pūjārīs, three altars means three pūjārīs must be there. Simultaneously they do. And when they're serving, they come up out of the temple. Just close the door and come out of the temple.
***(From here, about sri giru)
Gour Govinda Swami: In mind manifestation. One should not think him an ordinary human being or mortal. na martya-buddhyāsūyeta sarva-deva-mayo guruḥ [SB 11.17.27]. All the demigods are there, manifested in this person, in his Guru, his ācārya. So, Kṛṣṇa attracts, His name and His ācārya form also attracts. So, my revered spiritual master is ācārya, is Guru of the whole world. He attracts whole world. Yes. So, they are all attracted. Whole world is attracted. He is attractive.
Devotee: Very clear explanation.
Gour Govinda Swami: And his place also, is also attractive.
Devotee: His place.
Gour Govinda Swami: His place. Yes.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: All attractive, isn't it? Yes. Everything attractive concerning him. Yes. Don't you feel so?
Devotee: Yes. Prabhupāda very, very, very attractive. First, I didn't know why, devotees used to talk so much about Prabhupāda. I thought he was only a very nice, good human being, but I was wondering why they don't speak so much about Kṛṣṇa, but they, they get excited about Prabhupāda.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: So, I used to wonder, but it took me some time
Gour Govinda Swami: To understand.
Devotee: ... to understand it
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: then I started reading Śrīla Prabhupāda-līlāmṛta and his other small books, then I could feel that he was special. And also, when I read the Vyāsa-pūjā. I couldn't believe the kind of devotion that was expressed by his disciples.
Gour Govinda Swami: Disciples, yes.
Devotee: I couldn't, I couldn't believe it - it was so worldwide. Everybody has so much of love for him, and of course by reading it, I began to feel so attracted to Prabhupāda.
Gour Govinda Swami: And Kṛṣṇa has also said that. na me bhaktāś ca te janāḥ mad-bhaktānāṁ ca ye bhaktās te me bhakta-tamā matāḥ. [Ādi Purāṇa, CC Madhya 11.28] Kṛṣṇa says this thing. "Who is directly my devotee is not my devotee. Is devotee of my devotee, is very dear to me." He says that. Mad-bhakta-pūjābhyadhikā [SB 11.19.21]. Kṛṣṇa says this thing. Mad-bhakta-pūjābhyadhikā. Kṛṣṇa said this, mad-bhakta-pūjābhyadhikā. My bhakta-pūjā, the worship of my bhakta is greater worship than My worship. And Lord Śiva has also said that. ārādhanānāṁ sarveṣāṁ viṣṇor ārādhanāṁ paraṃ tasmāt parataraṁ devi tadīyānāṁ samarcanam [Padma Purāṇa / CC Madhya 11.31] Lord Śiva says to Pārvatī, his consort. "O, Devī, Pārvatī Devī, among all sorts of ārādhana, worship, worship of Viṣṇu is best worship." But ārādhana, worship of a Vaiṣṇava, a devotee of Viṣṇu, is more than that. Worship of Viṣṇu. Tadīyānāṁ samarcanam. Tasmāt parataraṁ devi. Lord Śiva said as a mahājana. Śivajī is a mahājana, out of the twelve mahājanas. This is there. And when Kṛṣṇa came, He is very dear to His devotees. Bhakta-vatsala. Though He is supremely independent, still, He is dependent to His devotee. Ahaṁ bhakto ’parādhīnaḥ. He was saying: ahaṁ bhakto ’parādhīno hy asvatantra iva dvija sādhubhir grasta-hṛdayo bhaktair bhakta-jana-priyaḥ [SB 9.4.63] He said this thing to Durvāsā Muni, ninth canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. "Oh, Dvija, O Brahman, Durvāsā, you should know, I have no independence," He says. He is supremely independent. "No, I have no independence. I am dependent to my devotee." He says this thing. Sādhubhir grasta-hṛdayo bhaktair bhakta-jana-priyaḥ. "That bhakta, the sādhu has occupied My heart. He is My heart, I am his heart." Hmm. He says that. sādhavo hṛdayaṁ mahyaṁ sādhūnāṁ hṛdayaṁ tv aham mad-anyat te na jānanti nāhaṁ tebhyo manāg api [SB 9.4.68] "Oh, Brahmin, you should know, that sādhu is my heart. I am his heart. They don't know anything but me. I also don't know anything but them." You see? bhakta mām vāndhiyāche preme-hṛdaya-bhitare / yāhāṅ yāhāṅ netra paḍe, tāhāṅ dekhe more [CC Madhya 25.127]. Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Kṛṣṇa says that, "Devotee has bound me up in his heart. I am in bondage now." "He has bound me up in the rope of love. That bond is so strong, though I am almighty, I cannot break it. I am unable to break it." Such bondage. Hṛdaya-bhitare. He has bound me in his heart. I'm there, bound up. Wherever he looks, he only sees Me. Nothing else. Such is the bondage of love. And Kṛṣṇa is in bondage. sadā mukto 'pi baddho 'smi bhaktena sneha-rajjubhiḥ. Nṛsiṁhadeva says to Prahlāda Mahārāja, the same thing, sadā mukto 'pi baddho 'smi bhaktena sneha-rajjubhiḥ. "Though I am supremely independent and free, still I am bound up in the love of the rope of my devotees." Sneha-rajjubhiḥ. I'm bound up. Like that.
Gour Govinda Swami: So, devotee is great. kṛṣṇera samatā haite baḍa bhakta-pada. Caitanya-caritāmṛta. kṛṣṇera samatā haite baḍa bhakta-pada. Nobody can be equal with Kṛṣṇa because He is supreme, supreme truth, supreme personality, supreme in all respect. But if you become His dear devotee, He will make you greater than Him. Make you greater. baḍa bhakta-pada. And Kṛṣṇa is so fond of, so dear to His devotee, even unnoticingly, he is following. He follows His dear devotee to get some dust from his feet. It is known as bhaktābhaktimān. Bhaktā is bhagavad-bhaktimān, and Kṛṣṇa is bhaktābhaktimān. You see? You see this thing? If you can become his dear devotee, you will find our Kṛṣṇa will make you great.
Devotee: Many, many more millions of births later. Hopefully.
Gour Govinda Swami: No Hari?
Devotee: Huh?
Gour Govinda Swami: Nobody is there to bring that book. So many mosquitoes.
Devotee: Yeah.
Gour Govinda Swami: So, you see? Kṛṣṇa is the source. He is bhakta-vatsala. But another danger is there. You know what?
Devotee: Bhakta-vatsala means?
Gour Govinda Swami: Very dear to the devotee.
Devotee: He is dear to His devotee.
Gour Govinda Swami: But one danger is there. You know what? You know?
Devotee: One can enjoy Kṛṣṇa?
Gour Govinda Swami: Huh?
Devotee: One can try and enjoy Kṛṣṇa?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, baba. That's not that. Huh?
Devotee: Aparādha to his devotee?
Gour Govinda Swami: That's aparādha. I'm not saying that thing. If you think that, "Yes, I am a bhakta. I am a bhakta. I'm a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. I am Vaiṣṇava." Finished. ‘āmi ta’ vaiṣṇava’, e-buddhi haile, amānī nā haba āmi pratiṣṭhāśā āsi’, hṛdaya dūṣibe, haiba niraya-gāmī [Kalyāṇa-kalpataru]. Bhaktivinoda Ṭh託ura says, "If this idea or intelligence comes to me, enters into me, that I am a Vaiṣṇava, so I cannot be amānī." I cannot pay respect to one and all. Rather, I will demand respect. So, pratiṣṭhāśā āsi’ hṛdaya dūṣibe, haiba niraya-gāmī. "Then I will go to hell because I will run after the name, fame and prestige now." Then I will go to hell. No, I am not a bhakta at all. I have no bhakti at all. Karma nahi janan nahi bhakti nahi. I have not performed any auspicious activity. I have no knowledge at all, no jñāna, no bhakti at all. I'm such durachara, patita, degraded, most fallen. This is dina bhava. naivārhaty abhidhātuṁ vai tvām akiñcana-gocaram [SB 1.8.26]. Kuntī Devī says, janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrībhir edhamāna-madaḥ pumān naivārhaty abhidhātuṁ vai tvām akiñcana-gocaram. Kuntī Devī says if, O Lord, You are only attained by such person or persons those who are very, very distressed, dina, akiñcana. Akiñcana means those are deprived of everything here in this material. Nothing. They have nothing here. No material asset, no material name, fame, nothing here. No material follower, nobody, nothing here. Just dina. So, who is their asset? Namaḥ akiñcana-vittāya. You are their asset. Oh Lord, You are their asset, and they are Your asset. Accha. Where is that? dīna-bandhur iti nāma te smṛtaṃ yādavendra patitaṃ mām uddhara bhakta-vatsala iti prathitaḥ kṣitau māmakaṃ hṛdayam āśu kampate [Padyavali]. You can't understand? Samaj nhi sakta he? Nhi, vo samaj nhi sakta he. Smaj nhi aata he. Nhi ata he. Oh, Lord, I got so much encouraged by hearing that you are being a dīna-bandhu. You are a friend of the distressed. So I got so much encouraged by hearing this name. Oh, he's my real friend because I am such, I am dīna. I am greatly stressed, greater distress. So He is my friend dīna-bandhu. (One sentence missing . 1.4.40). But here I heard you are bhakta vatsala. You are very dear to your devotees. Oh now my heart throbs, because I am not a devotee. How can I approach You? When I came here, I heard you are bhakta vatsala. That my heart now throbs. This palpitation of my heart is there now. Because I'm not a devotee at all. How can I approach you? I am dina. Most important. Most important. If someone will think, this thing will enter into him, "Oh, I am a bhakta now, Vaishnav now. Finish.” He cannot become dīna. “No, I have no bhakti at all, I am not a bhakta at all”
Devotee: It must be very difficult?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Difficult, at the same time, also easy.
Devotee: To become a bhakta and to think that you are not great enough. That should be the aim - to worship and yet feel not, that you are not worshiping enough.
Gour Govinda Swami: I am not a bhakta. I am most fallen most degraded. Dina. Most distressed. Dina. I have no bhakti at all. No bhakti at all. No. This is the attitude. There must be the attitude, inner thing.
Devotee: Most many of us start worshiping Kṛṣṇa. And then when we try to preach to others, we tend to be a little puffed up about our own knowledge.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah. Yeah. That danger is there. That danger is there. That's danger. This danger is there. Yeah.
Devotee: Is it only with neophytes or with everybody?
Gour Govinda Swami: This is very difficult to give it up, this thing. kanaka-kāminī, pratiṣṭhā-bāghinī, chāḍiyāche yāre, sei to’ vaiṣṇava [Vaishnava Ke?, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭh託ura.] kanaka-kāminī, pratiṣṭhā-bāghinī, chāḍiyāche yāre, sei to’ vaiṣṇava. What is that? Vaiṣṇave pratiṣṭhā, śūkarer viṣṭhā. bhaktivinode thakur says, Vaiṣṇave pratiṣṭhā, śūkarer viṣṭhā. Who is real Vaiṣṇav? kanaka-kāminī, pratiṣṭhā-bāghinī, chāḍiyāche yāre, sei to’ vaiṣṇava. one who has given up kananka kamini and prathishta. Kanaka means gold or material wealth. Kamini means women. And prathistha -bhagini - name fame worship prestige is pratisthta. Lika a tigress – Bhagini. Like a tigress. One who has given up all these is a Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇave pratiṣṭhā, śūkarer viṣṭhā. bhaktivinode thakur says, prathishta, name, fame, worship, prestige like this is prathishta – vaishnave prathistha. A Vaishnav hankers after this that means he is only accepting the stool of a hog. Sukarera vishta. Yes. (pause) That’s Vaishnav, he is Vaishnav.
Devotee: It's very difficult to become Vaiṣṇava.
Gour Govinda Swami: Become dīna, baba. Become dīna. Give up everything, become dīna. And really we are dīna, isn't it? Are not you?
Devotee: Not me.
Gour Govinda Swami: Not me?
Devotee: The association of the sādhu, then it's easier.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. One who is really dīna. Yes. One who is really dīna. Yeah. Very difficult to give it up, all these things. But it's easy also. Give it up. Keep it up. tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. [Sad-Goswami Ashtakam] The sad-gosvamis, rupa goswami, sanatana goswami they had everything. They were very courage persons in material calculation. They were born in aristocratic brahmin family, janma. Aisvarya- they were very opulent person, materially opulent person because they were like chief ministers, ministers. Chief minister, union minister – rupa goswami, sanatan goswami under Hussain Shah. Ministers aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati - of the king. They were very learned scholars – pandit. You see, they were learned scholars in Sanskrit in Persian, in Arabic - many languages. Great scholars, pandits. Janma aisvarya sruta sribhir. And very good-looking persons also, bodily features were nice also. But they kicked out. Kicked like these are nasty things. Tuccha vat tyaktvā tūrṇam, tuccha vat. Immediately kicked out. Put on kanthi and kaupina, only one shattered (could not understand 1.12.28), entered the jungle of Vrindavan, stayed under a tree, spending one night under one - eka eka vṛkṣa-tale eka eka gāna gāya [CC Madhya 14.99]. Such life, they voluntarily accepted. Dina. Bhutva dina ganeshakau. Became dina. Can you become like this?
Devotee: we have to be dina. Mercy will come like that.
Gour Govinda Swami: You cannot give up your attachment?
Devotee: I don't know. I’d like to.
Gour Govinda Swami: Like to. You want to give it up, but she's not allowing you to go. Isn't it?
Devotee: I don't think she has much influence.
Gour Govinda Swami: Mei ye kambal ko chodna chahta he lekin kambal mujhe nhi chodta. Isn’t it? mei ye kambal ko chodna chahta he lekin kambal mujhe nhi chodta he.(Hindi)
Devotee: I don't think she will have much to say about my wanting to give anything up. If I decide I want to give up, I don't think she can stand in the way
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah.
Devotee: That I know.
Gour Govinda Swami: If you are determined, if you are determined, no, nothing will stand on your way. Yes. There is, there is a story, you see. One sādhu came to a king. King is very much attached to his, kingdom, his wives, his wealth, materialist wealth, opulence. So much king has, so much attached. How can he be detached, become a vairāgī and do Kṛṣṇa-bhajana? Very difficult. So, sādhu told him, "Oh, King, now you are growing old. And you have young sons, prince. Give up this kingdom, all this attachment, and become a vairāgī do bhajana." The king said, "Yes, I want to be like that, but what to do? These things never allow me to be detached. They have grasped me so tightly." Then sādhu said, "Oh, if this? all right." Sādhu thought, "All right. I will teach him a good lesson." So, one day, by this time, evening time, just twilight. That king had a nice garden. It's pramoda-udyāna. Nice garden, varieties of flower trees, fruit trees are there, orchards are there, and nice pond is there. And the bank of that pond, there was a tree. What you say? We say is a śāmi-vṛkṣa. What you say in English, I don't know. śāmi-vṛkṣa. śāmi-vṛkṣa - a tree, is some sort of cotton. It's not kārpāsa. It's some sort of śimulī. śāmi-vṛkṣa. Very soft cotton, comes off big tree, but it has thorns and it's strong. Very strong. It will -
Devotee: Cactus.
Gour Govinda Swami: I don't know what is English. We say śāmi-vṛkṣa in Sanskrit.
Devotee: Cactus.
Gour Govinda Swami: What is that? I don't know. So, the sādhu went to that tree and just, embraced that tree's two arms tightly and cried, "Oh king! Oh king! Oh king! Please come and save me, and save me, and save me!" The king was just wandering there, loitering there in the evening in the pramoda-udyāna. "Oh, who is crying?" "That sādhu." "Yes, sādhu, what happened to you?" "No, this thorny tree is breaking through my body. I'm getting so much pain. Please save me." "Why don't you, get out from that tree? Why have you embraced that tree so tightly? Loosen your arms. Get out." "I want to be, but the tree is not allowing me to get out." What shall I do. It's like that.
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah. It's like that. But you see here.
Devotee: Samajh gayā.
Gour Govinda Swami: Samajh gayā? Yes. Samajh āyā. Yes. All right. All right. Become, become, engage yourself in loving service of Kṛṣṇa, you know? Very nice. Yes?
Devotee: Guru Mahārāja, how do you let go of that tree?
Gour Govinda Swami: Huh?
Devotee: How do you let go of that tree?
Gour Govinda Swami: What do you say?
Devotee: How does one let go of the tree?
Gour Govinda Swami: Let go of the tree? Tree is not grasping you. You are grasping the tree. Why? Give up the tree. Attachment to the tree. Become attached to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. viṣaye ye prīti ebe āchaye āmāra sei-mata prīti hauk caraṇe tomāra. This prayer, I am viṣayī. I'm very much attached to this material enjoyment, you see. Materialistic person, I am materialistic person, I have so many material desire. I'm viṣayī. I'm so much attached to it. Strongly attached. Oh, Lord. Please. Shower your mercy on me. Let this attachment be transferred towards your lotus feet. Pray to the Lord. gopīnāth, tumi to' sakali pāro [Gopīnātha, Bhaktivinoda Ṭh託ura]. Visayi durjan. Ami visayi durjan. He Gopinath You can do anything. You can do and undo things, O Gopinath. Isn’t it? Itumi to' sakali pāro, You can do anything. You can do and undo thing. Ami visayi durjan. I am a crooked man and durjan. I am very wicked person, visayi durjan. Visayi durjan. I am so much attached to this visaya, this material things. If you just cut off this, just cut off, with a sword, you have a sword. With that sword if you can cut off this knot with one stroke, then such sword is Krupa, mercy. jñānāsinaihaiva vivṛkṇa-mohaḥ hariṁ [SB 5.12.16]. That sword is like the sword of knowledge, jñāna-asinā. Cut off this knot. Bhaktivinode Thakur prays like this to Gopinath. I cannot do by myself, all these things. I tried so many ways, tried but I failed. ’hāro’ āmi ebe – I admit my failure now, defeat now, I am defeated. I admit my deafeat, O Gopinath, I cannot by myself. tumi hṛṣīkeśa viṣaya chāḍāye, śodho mora citta. You are Hṛṣīkeśa, You are the master of mind and senses. So please control my mind and my senses and take it to Your lotus feet, that You can do. I cannot do myself. This prayer. Pray pray pray. Pray pray pray. All moment our prayer prayer.
Devotee: Then we can say, also we cannot pray. We're so, so fallen that we cannot pray.
Gour Govinda Swami: We cannot pray. No. Yes, we are so much attached that we are afraid if we pray, then we'll be detached. If Kṛṣṇa will take away everything as he took away everything from Bali Mahārāja. With two steps, he took away everything from Bali Mahārāja. With two steps. So we are afraid Kṛṣṇa will take everything from us. So I'll be deprived of everything here. So I am afraid.
Devotee: Afraid to pray.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, afraid to pray. That is His mercy. yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye taddhanaṁ śanaiḥ [SB 10.88.8]. Kṛṣṇa says. yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye taddhanaṁ śanaiḥ. Really, if I shower My mercy to anybody, then I'll immediately take away all his material assets, material everything to which is attached and make him deprived of everything he has. Akincana. Nothing. So, he will find, "Oh, I have nothing. Nobody else. No material followers. No material friend." So, he completely takes shelter at My lotus feet. That's My mercy. That's My mercy. Yes. Then why are you, why will you come to His lotus feet? "Oh, I have so much. I have my bank balance, so much landed property. So much car, television." Like this, like this. "My home, sons, daughters, friends, kith kin. So many. Why you will take shelter of Krsna? You are much attached. And then, Oh, there is so many things. "All, all these things will protect me." Then why you will take shelter of Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is your only protector. You don't know this thing. kṛṣṇa vinā rakṣaka tāra keho na. That nobody else than Kṛṣṇa is your protector. kṛṣṇa je rakṣaka. Kṛṣṇa is my protector. Kṛṣṇa is my maintainer. Nobody else. Yeah.
Devotee: Guru Mahārāja, a few days ago at the morning program I asked you how can we reach the stage of pure devotion of, become great devotee? And you also said that unless one get the mercy of a sādhu, Vaiṣṇava, who do consider oneself as a Vaishnava. at the same time, you always stressed how that we should pray. Can one pray to Lord from the core of heart, but without being under the guidance of a sādhu?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yeah, Kṛṣṇa will make arrangement, baba. Kṛṣṇa will make that arrangement. When Dhruva Mahārāja, a five-year-old boy, you see? So determined, so determined. Left home, went to the forest. His mother said that, "Here is Lord Nārāyaṇa. If Lord Nārāyaṇa can shower His mercy on you, then you can get it up this place, position." Other than that, without the mercy of Lord Nārāyaṇa, no, you cannot get it. "I must meet that Lord Nārāyaṇa and get it from Him." So determined. And Nārāyaṇa could understand He is very determined now. He never swayed off him.. So, He made arrangement that Nārada Muni went there. He met Nārada Muni, a sādhu. That, that arrangement He will do. Kṛṣṇa is paramātmā in your heart. He knows your heart. What is there in your heart, He knows it. Oh, this is there in the heart of sena. You cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa. He is in your heart. What you are whispering in the heart, He knows. Therefore, we say, kṛṣṇa-kṛpā te guru mile, guru-kṛpā te kṛṣṇa mile. By mercy of Kṛṣṇa, a Vaiṣṇava sādhu Guru will, is available. You meet. Then by mercy of that sādhu Guru, you will get, address Kṛṣṇa. This is how reciprocal interdependence. Yes. That's Kṛṣṇa's arrangement, paramātmā's arrangement.
Devotee: That can happen only if we sincerely want to have, take shelter of Kṛṣṇa.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: And he will make arrangement.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. He will make arrangement, because we are crying in our heart. Make arrangement. Yes, definitely. Definitely. Yeah.
Devotee: What about those, devotees who, who have so much faith in Śrīla Prabhupāda and take him in their heart as their Guru?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: Is that enough? Is that enough?
Gour Govinda Swami: No, you must follow his instruction. Then he will be pleased. What he has said, what that Vaiṣṇava, that, ācārya-Guru has said, "Completely surrender yourself unto the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa." He has said that thing, because he has completely taken shelter. He is a completely surrendered soul. He wants you to become like that. Unless you become like that, he will never be happy.
Devotee: That's not easy without, Guru.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, without Guru that's not easy. Yes, that's definite. You don't know how to surrender. śikhāya śaraṇāgati koro he uttama. Ami to adhama. śikhāya śaraṇāgati koro he uttama. That they were chanting. What bhaktivinode thakur says, kāṅdiyā kāṅdiyā. Weeping, weeping, crying, crying. Look. Gasping the feet of Rūpa-Sanātana. "Please, please, please, teach me śaraṇāgati. I don't know how to surrender. Please teach me śaraṇāgati.”