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890405 - SB 7.7.24 - The Science of the Soul - Bhubaneswar



Gour Govinda Swami:

Translation:

Sober and expert persons should search for the spirit soul with minds purified through analytical study in terms of the soul’s connection with and distinction from all things that undergo creation, maintenance and destruction.

Purport: 

"A sober person can study himself and distinguish the soul from the body by analytical study. For example, when one considers his body — his head, his hands and so on — one can certainly understand the difference between the spirit soul and the body. No one says, “I head.” Everyone says, “My head.” Thus there are two entities — the head and “I.” They are not identical, although they appear to be one conglomeration.

One may argue, “When we analyze the body we find a head, hands, legs, a belly, blood, bones, urine, stool and so on, but after everything is considered, where is the existence of the soul?” A sober man, however, avails himself of this Vedic instruction:



yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante; yena jātāni jīvanti; yat prayanty abhisaṁviśanti; tad vijijñāsasva; tad brahmeti. 

(Taittirīya Upaniṣad 3.1.1)



Thus he can understand that the head, hands, legs and indeed the entire body have grown on the basis of the soul. If the soul is within, the body, head, hands and legs grow, but otherwise they do not. A dead child does not grow up, for the soul is not present. If by a careful analysis of the body one still cannot find the existence of the soul, this is due to his ignorance. How can a gross man fully engaged in materialistic activities understand the soul, which is a small particle of spirit one ten-thousandth the size of the tip of a hair? Such a person foolishly thinks that the material body has grown from a combination of chemicals, although he cannot find them. The Vedas inform us, however, that chemical combinations do not constitute the living force; the living force is the ātmā and Paramātmā, and the body grows on the basis of that living force. The fruit of a tree grows and undergoes six kinds of change because of the presence of the tree. If there were no tree, there could be no question of the growth and maturity of fruit. Therefore, beyond the existence of the body are the Paramātmā and ātmā within the body. This is the first understanding of spiritual knowledge explained in Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino ’smin yathā dehe. The body exists because of the presence of the Supreme Lord and the jīva, which is part of the Lord. This is further explained by the Lord Himself in Bhagavad-gītā (9.4):



mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ
jagad avyakta-mūrtinā
mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni
na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ



“By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.” The Supreme Soul exists everywhere. The Vedas enjoin, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: everything is Brahman or an expansion of Brahman’s energies. Sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva: everything rests on the Lord, just like pearls strung together on a thread. The thread is the principal Brahman. He is the supreme cause, the Supreme Lord upon whom everything rests (mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat). Thus we must study the ātmā and Paramātmā — the individual soul and the Supersoul — upon whom the entire material cosmic manifestation rests. This is explained by the Vedic statement yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante; yena jātāni jīvanti."

Gour Govinda Swami:

These six are famous. Their six philosophies are famous. Chār-darśana — meaning six philosophies and six philosophers: Gautama, Kaṇāda, Jaimini, Āstāvakra, Patañjali, and atheistic Kapila. There are two Kapilas — the atheistic Kapila and another, Devahūti-nānada, the son of Devahūti, an incarnation of the Lord. But here, it’s the atheistic Kapila. Vyāsa is a famous philosopher.

In Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is stated (Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 25.56): "tate chāya darśana haite 'tattva' nāhi jāni, 'mahājana' yei kahe, sei 'satyā' māni." It is stated in Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Do you know this? Do you? No? Don’t you read Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Yes, the English rendering is there, but this is a Bengali verse — (repeats same verse) tate chāya... These chār darśana, six philosophies and philosophers, they don’t know tattva, the real tattva, the real truth.
Who knows them? Mahājana yei kahe, sei satya māni — what the mahājana says, that is the truth — mahājana yena gattah sa panthah (Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 17.186). There are twelve mahājanas: Svāyambhu, Nārada, Śambhu, Kapila, Kumāra, Manu, Prahlāda, Janaka, Bhīṣma, Bali, Vyāsadeva, (Vaya?..7.06). You know this? Twelve mahājanas. In the sixth canto of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is stated — twelve mahājanas. And those who are followers of the mahājanas are also considered mahājanas.

In our Vaiṣṇava paramparā, the disciplic succession, the original mahājana is Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī. And the other ācāryas coming in that line, such as Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, and Bhaktivedānta Swami — they are all mahājanas. Mahājana yena gatah sa panthah — mahājana yei kahe, sei satya māni. We should accept the truth — what the mahājanas have said.

And we should first know who the mahājanas are. That is the question. We should first know who the mahājanas are. So many people have many considerations, many ideas regarding mahājanas. Many think, many people think that Cārvāka is a mahājana. They think that Cārvāka is a mahājana. The atheist Cārvāka, philosopher, who says: "bhasmi-bhūtasya dehasya punaḥ kutah punar āgamo bhavet, rṇam kṛtvā ghṛtam pibet, yāvad jīvet sukham jīvet" (please check...?...8.38). The atheist Cārvāka cannot understand the existence of the soul. He doesn’t know the science of the soul. He knows only the body, and bodily needs, and bodily pleasures. Therefore he says when the body is finished — (repeats verse) bhasmi-bhūtasya... — when the body is finished, everything is finished.

Is there anything? When the body is finished, is there anything there? Nothing is there, everything is finished. There is no rebirth. In other words, there will be no rebirth — punar janmaṁ kutah — he says like that. No rebirth. Everything is finished. That means he doesn't believe in the existence of the soul. He doesn't know the science of the soul — how the soul is eternal and how the soul is eternally conscious. How the soul is eternally related to the Supreme Soul. And the soul has no birth or death. na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit — in the Bhagavad-gītā, Lord Kṛṣṇa has said. na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (Bhagavad-gītā 2.20). You know this verse? (repeats śloka). Do you know it? What does it mean? (devotee talks in background, inaudible). Then you say it in your own words. What do you mean by that?

na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. Verses from Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā. Don’t you read Bhagavad-gītā? Primary study is Bhagavad-gītā. What class are you in now? Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam class means you are in the degree class. Postgraduate class is Caitanya-caritāmṛta class. If you have already passed the primary stage, why don’t you know it?

Nrhari: I don't know all verses, I only know some.

Gour Govinda Swami: I am not speaking of all verses. I tell (ask) you its meaning. Explain in your own language: na jāyate mriyate vā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre — what is meant by that?
(Nrhari speaks in the background, inaudible, 11:45 — soul never takes birth.)

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, never dies. Yes. na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre — if the body is slain or dead, the soul never dies. It cannot be cut by instruments. That verse is there.

(devotee in background quotes Bhagavad-gītā 2.23).

Gour Govinda Swami: "nainam chindanti śastrāṇi, nainam dahati pāvakaḥ, na cainam kledayanty āpo, na śoṣayati mārutaḥ." This verse is there regarding the spirit soul. Very nice. That same thing is stated here. Cārvāka, this Cārvāka doesn't know how the soul exists in the body and what is the need of the soul. He knows only the existence of the body and the need of the body. So he says: (repeats śloka) bhasmi bhūtasya... There is no rebirth. When the body is finished, everything is finished. (13.14) So, "yāvad jīvet sukham jīvet rṇam kṛtvā ghṛtam pibet." As long as you are alive, this body is alright, you enjoy, enjoy, enjoy. "Yāvad jīvet sukham jīvet." Live happily! What is that happiness? According to that Cārvāka, happiness means bodily pleasure, bodily happiness. rṇam kṛtvā ghṛtam pibet. If one would live happily, he must require so many things to give pleasure to his senses. Nice food, nice apartment, nice cushion to sit, aham nidrā — nice sleep, nice to protect oneself, and nicely mating. These are needs of the body, thereby you get pleasure. Because this pleasure will not be available when the body is finished.

So, as long as you are, as long as this body exists, be happy and enjoy. If you have no money — because money is required to get these pleasurable objects — if you have no money, one may say, a poor man has no money, he cannot enjoy. How can he enjoy? He cannot get good food. He cannot get a good, nice air-conditioned room. He cannot get a good cushion to lie on and sleep. He cannot get a very nice, beautiful wife to enjoy. If you have no money, nobody will care. Poor man — get out of here!

Then, what to do? Cārvāka says, what to do? "rṇam kṛtvā ghṛtam pibet" — if you have no money, then beg, borrow, or steal. Or take a loan. Nrhari is a wealthy person — take a loan from him and enjoy!

But one thing he has said: "ghṛtam pibet" — you drink ghee. He has never said, "eat fish and meat." He has said this thing: "ghṛtam pibet." That means drink ghee! And enjoy! Be happy. Live a happy life. "bhasmi bhūtasya...." (repeats śloka 16.18). When the body is finished, everything is finished, you never come again, baba. So now the opportunity has been given to you to enjoy, enjoy. This is Cārvāka's philosophy. And many accept this — yes, sir, this is a nice philosophy, nice, very good philosopher — he is a mahājana! They say Cārvāka is also a mahājana. But we Vaiṣṇavas don't agree with it. No, no, no — Cārvāka is not a mahājana.
Who are the real mahājanas? As I quoted the verse from the Mahābhārata. The answer given by Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja: "tārko pratisṭhā śrutayo vibhinna, nāsāv ṛṣiḥ yasya matam na bhinnam, dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhāyām, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ." (Mahābhārata, Vana Parva 313.117)

You know its meaning? You have heard my tape? (conch blowing, inaudible, 17.42). You should accept as it is stated here (reads from purport Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 7.7.24): "A sober man, however, should accept these Vedic instructions: yato vā imāni.... brahm eti." (17.49). You should accept the authority, mahājanas. Bonafide mahājanas, authorities, Vedic learned scholars, those who come in bonafide disciplic succession. They are mahājanas. What they say and what the śāstra says, and the mahājanas have explained the śāstras, their explanation should be accepted. They have shown the path. We should tread that path which the mahājanas have shown. And those mahājanas, those who are bonafide mahājanas, they have not shown many paths. Only one path.

That is what (which) path? (Nrhari answers, inaudible, 18.49).

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, the path of bhakti, the path of devotional service — bhakti-patha, not jnana-patha, not yoga-patha, not karma-patha. Patha means path, way. Karma, jnana, yoga. You know it? These are terms. Fruitive activity — karma, jnana — knowledge, dry philosophical knowledge, empirical knowledge, philosophy. That is jnana. Then — karma, jnana, yoga — asṭāṅga-yoga, eightfold yoga, Patañjali's.

They never lead to that path. Their destination is different. If you can ride on the train of karma, if you can ride on the train of jnana, if you can ride on the train of yoga, then where will you reach? The destination is different. The only machine or vehicle is bhakti. That will lead you to the supreme destination — that is the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. And our aim is there, how to reach it. Neither the vehicle of karma, nor the vehicle of jnana or yoga will lead there. They have different destinations.

The vehicle of karma will lead you up to where? Do you know? Do you ride on the vehicle of karma? (devotee in the background, inaudible, 20.40).

Gour Govinda Swami: It will lead you at best to the heavenly planet. Punya-karma — auspicious activities one may perform. So, at best, you go to the heavenly planets. That is his destination, up to that point only, if you ride on the vehicle of karma.

If you ride on the vehicle of jnana, that will lead you up to the impersonal Brahman existence, effulgence. Not beyond that.

If you ride on the vehicle of yoga, asṭāṅga-yoga, then that will lead you up to Paramātmā. But our aim is the supreme destination, the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. These vehicles won't carry you there. Only one vehicle, and that is the vehicle of bhakti. And that is what the mahājanas say (inaudible, 21.47).

Devotee: Jaya Śrīla Gurudeva ki jaya! Śrīla Prabhupāda Mahārāja ki jaya! Sāma-veda-bhakta-vṛnda ki jaya!

Devotee: And also, will any activity outside of bhakti-yoga also lead to sense gratification?

Gour Govinda Swami: What?

Devotee: Sense gratification.

Gour Govinda Swami: Bhakti-yoga?

Devotee: Outside of bhakti-yoga.

Gour Govinda Swami: Outside one, yes.

Devotee: Even jnana and yoga will lead...?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes... they are sense gratification also, yes. Therefore they cannot lead you to the supreme destination. So mahājanas never recommend all these paths. They have shown only one path, that is bhakti. Mahājano yena gathaḥ sa panthāḥ. You take the path treaded by the mahājanas. That is the best path.

Devotee: So, Guru Mahārāja, all the teachings of the Vedic scriptures are to make someone slowly become a mahājana and follow whatever the mahājana says?

Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, yes, whatever the mahājana says. You surrender yourself to the lotus feet of the mahājana, and they are also surrendered to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Ultimately, they teach you that thing.