Gour Govinda Swami (reads from Srimad Bhagavatam (7.7.19-20):
Translation:
“Ātmā” refers to the Supreme Lord or the living entities. Both of them are spiritual, free from birth and death, free from deterioration and free from material contamination. They are individual, they are the knowers of the external body, and they are the foundation or shelter of everything. They are free from material change, they are self-illuminated, they are the cause of all causes, and they are all-pervading. They have nothing to do with the material body, and therefore they are always uncovered. With these transcendental qualities, one who is actually learned must give up the illusory conception of life, in which one thinks, “I am this material body, and everything in relationship with this body is mine.”
Purport:
In Bhagavad-gītā (15.7) Lord Kṛṣṇa clearly says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ: “All the living entities are part of Me.” Therefore the living entities are qualitatively the same as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is the leader, the Supreme among all the living entities. In the Vedas it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām: the Lord is the chief individual living entity, the leader of the subordinate living entities. Because the living entities are parts or samples of God, their qualities are not different from those of the Supreme Lord. The living entities have the same qualities as the Lord, just as a drop of sea water is composed of the same chemicals as the great sea itself. Thus there is oneness in quality but a difference in quantity. One can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead by understanding the sample, the living entity, because all the qualities of God exist in a minute quantity in the living entities. There is oneness, but God is great whereas the living entities are extremely small. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.20). The living entities are smaller than the atom, but God is greater than the greatest. Our conception of greatness may be represented by the sky because we think of the sky as being unlimitedly big, but God is bigger than the sky. Similarly, we have knowledge that the living entities are smaller than atoms, being one ten-thousandth the size of the tip of a hair, yet the quality of being the supreme cause of all causes exists in the living entity as well as in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Indeed, it is due to the presence of the living entity that the body exists and bodily changes take place. Similarly, it is because the Supreme Lord is within this universe that the changes dictated by the material laws occur.
The word ekaḥ, meaning “individual,” is significant. As explained in Bhagavad-gītā (9.4), mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ. Everything, material and spiritual, including earth, water, air, fire, sky and the living entities, exists on the platform of spirit soul. Although everything is an emanation from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one should not think that the Supreme Lord is dependent upon anything else.
Both God and the living entity are fully conscious. As living entities, we are conscious of our bodily existence. Similarly, the Lord is conscious of the gigantic cosmic manifestation. This is confirmed in the Vedas. Yasmin dyauḥ pṛthivī cāntarīkṣam. Vijñātāram adhikena vijānīyāt. Ekam evādvitīyam. Ātma-jyotiḥ samrāḍ ihovāca. Sa imān lokān asṛjata. Satyaṁ jñānam anantam. Asaṅgo hy ayaṁ puruṣaḥ. pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. All these Vedic injunctions prove that both the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the minute soul are individual. One is great, and the other is small, but both of them are the cause of all causes—the corporally limited and the universally unlimited.
We should always remember that although we are equal to the Supreme Personality of Godhead in quality, we are never equal to Him in quantity. Persons with a small fund of intelligence, finding themselves equal in quality with God, foolishly think that they are equal in quantity also. Their intelligence is called aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ—unpolished or contaminated intelligence. When such persons, after endeavoring hard for many, many lives to understand the supreme cause, are finally in actual knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva, they surrender unto Him (vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ [Bg. 7.19]). Thus they become great mahātmās, perfect souls. If one is fortunate enough to understand his relationship with God, knowing that God is great (vibhu) whereas the living entity is small (aṇu), he is perfect in knowledge. The individual exists in darkness when he thinks that he is the material body and that everything in relationship with the material body belongs to him. This is called ahaṁ mama (janasya moho ’yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This is illusion. One must give up his illusory conception and thus become fully aware of everything.
Gour Govinda Swami:
In the Bhagavad-gītā, this is also mentioned, and in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto, the same thing is described. The demons say so—those who don't believe in the śāstric injunctions. They don't believe in śāstra, they don't believe in God, and they don't believe in sādhus, learned persons. They say:
asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te
jagad āhur anīśvaram
aparaspara-sambhūtaṁ
kim anyat kāma-haitukam
(Bhagavad-gītā 16.8)
They say this jagad—this world—is anīśvaram—"There is no God!" Who is God? "I am God! Is there any God?" They think themselves very great. They are leaders, great politicians, and they say so. And this is a fact.
We also come across such people when we go out to preach. When there is a great congregation of people, and a sādhu has come, many people gather to listen. They speak about God. But they also invite a great politician or leader.
Once, I asked one gentleman:
"Why have you invited this political leader here when you have invited us to speak about God, the soul, and the science of the soul and the science of the Lord? What do they know? Why have you invited such a person?"
He answered:
"Swāmījī, please understand—if a political leader comes, many people will gather. Then the assembly will be great. Otherwise, very few people will come to hear your philosophy. They are not interested. They are interested in political leaders, thinking that material benefits will follow. These leaders may promise roads, electrification, or water supply. People come for that. That will be all right."
They also give a seat with the sadhu, an equal seat (inaudible... 10.14), that political leader, and let him speak what he wants to speak. He says: "We are hearing this sadhu say—O Lord, Lord, Supreme Lord, God, God! What is this? Is there God? Has anybody seen Him? I am such a great leader, I've not seen! How do others say that they have seen? No God. There is no God." He says like that.
"The sadhus say like that, that there is Lord, Supreme Lord, Parameśvara Bhagavān. Have they seen Him? I am such a great leader, I lead so many people, I have not seen! Being such a great person, how can an ordinary person see the Lord? So there is no God at all. This is only saying, theoretical saying, not practical. God does not exist!" They say so. You see? And they are considered very great people (laughs). So, that he says.
So, in our culture at least I, we spiritual leaders stand up to speak and then we challenge them: "What is that—there is no God? You are a born blind man, a born blind boy thinks...(conch blowing). A born blind boy hears that many people are speaking of the sun. 'Oh, now dark night has gone, the sun has arisen, it is daylight, day has begun—get up, get up!' He is thinking, 'What do these people say? Sun? What is that? Who is that? Who is that sun? I cannot see the sun. I make my own day and night, whereas these people are saying the sun makes days and nights?' The born blind boy or person thinks like that."
So, is it a fact that there is no sun? And is his thinking correct? No, you are a born blind; you have no proper vision to see the sun. Therefore, you think there is no sun. Similarly, you, leader, you have no proper vision, no proper understanding to know how the Lord exists, how the Lord is there. You are like a blind boy, a blind person. Therefore, you say there is no God.
Those who are endowed with such vision, who have seen God, they say, "Yes—God is there. Why don't you believe? Why do you think that I am a blind person with no proper vision?" One who has proper vision, he sees and says—why don't you accept it? That we say. Finish (laughs).
Devotee: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda ki! Gaurāṣama bhakta-vṛnda ki jaya! Ananta-koṭi bhakta-vṛnda ki...
Gour Govinda Swami: The time is very short and the purport is very long. But I am the (kind of) person to speak for a longer time, not short time. I can speak for two hours on this. Two hours is not sufficient for me. I am habituated like that.
Devotee: Can I ask you one question?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.
Devotee: I gave a class once in Australia and one leader, a devotee, said to me, "You are giving this nice class—how can you prove God exists?"
Gour Govinda Swami: How can you prove?
Devotee: Yes, how can you prove to me that God exists? So how can you prove?
Gour Govinda Swami: He challenged... asked this question? Only this theoretical saying or can you prove it? Isn't it?
Devotee: Yes.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says (Bhagavad-gītā 7.8) raso 'ham... pāuruṣam nṛṣu. So many things are said. You don't know God? See all these things first. First is knowledge—how you can have the idea about God. When you drink water, it is so sweet. That sweetness is I. raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmī śaśi-sūryayoḥ. You see the moon and the sun, how effulgent they are. That effulgence is I. puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyaṁ ca (Bhagavad-gītā 7.9). So many things in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa has said for those people to have an idea of the Lord, of Myself.
This is preliminary knowledge. This is preliminary knowledge. You take that knowledge. You come and admit yourself in our class and learn it. Then you can understand. Otherwise, how can you follow without accepting a guru, a proper teacher, and listening to him? Not possible.
When you are a mere child, you cannot understand how the sun rises, how the flower blossoms, how the wind blows, how the season changes. When you go to school and college and read, then you can understand. So, we have this school and college here. You admit yourself and learn from the teacher, then you can understand. Then you can get the proof.
So, you are a blind man, you cannot see the sun, so go to the hospital and get an operation. Then you can get back your eye. Then you can see the sun. Similarly, you are blind to see the Lord. So, we are doctors here, śādhu-vaiḍya. Śādhu is a doctor. Operation, (he'll) operate your eye, your vision. And with that vision, you can have this...
Devotee: Premānjana...
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, premānjana-cūrīta. Unless you have it, how can you know? And how can... if I give proof, you cannot understand also. Why shall I give it to you?
Devotee: I told him it's a matter of faith also. You need some faith.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, as we are saying that thing—two plus two is equal to four. One must accept the authority. The primary teacher teaches this thing, and the innocent child accepts it. How is it that two plus two equals four, and why not anything else? That will be explained in a higher mathematics class. First, I accept the authority. When you admit yourself, then undergo the training, then you can understand. Otherwise, not. If I say, you cannot accept it, you cannot believe it. Just believe—yes, he is a spiritual authority, and speaking—just believe it! And undergo the process. We have a process. You have to undergo that process. Then your heart will be purified, then you can understand. Then you will have such vision, then you can see; otherwise, not possible.
And your thing is, they say, they are known as, what we say, adhyakṣa (? 18.55), adhyakṣa means... akṣa means eye. What will they see? Seeing is believing. If I see it, then I believe it. If I can't see, I won't believe it. That is their philosophy, "seeing is believing." Alright, you can see! But can you see the Lord with these eyes? A different eye, vision is required. You have no such vision. You are blind. But the doctor is there. So, do the operation, and that eye will be opened, then you can see. You will have the proper vision.
Om ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur unmilitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namah. That we say. One can open that eye. You are devoid of that cakṣur, that eye. If I prove, you cannot understand, and if I show you, you cannot see also.